ARE YOU AN INTELLECTUAL? Why not?

by Terry 102 Replies latest jw friends

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Well, Terry, you pulled me in to this argument because of your general challenge. Your thread, after all, is titled, "ARE AN INTELLECTUAL? Why not?"

    The inference is if someone does not choose the intellectual path that they are living a substandard life. I wholly believe you rescued your own intellect by leaving the society, and bravo for doing so. On the other hand, people leave for all sorts of reasons. Not everyone is reasoned out of the society. I speak for the great many people who live by heart. The Watchtower Society is similarly repressive to people who live by heart.

    I see you've tempered your stand somewhat to your own personal views. Which are fine. I've already pointed out that I've come to a similar conclusion that any instruction must be put in to practice and if it fails, the instruction is suspect. Not my observation or my intellect.

    I think a broader challenge might be "Are you living true to yourself?". That would pull in a good many more ex-witness types.

    I do notice that you tend to rush to conclusions faster than I do. Which probably has much to do with your temperament and style. I prefer to leave my conclusion open for change for when new information comes along. The poke and jab style of debate I learned early, and I apply it as brutally to my own internal philosophy. That way I have checked it against all challenges. If your argument has flaws, clean it up. You might end up with a finer conclusion.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Ayn Rand:

    "If any civilization is to survive, it is the morality of altruism that men have to reject."

    One of the biggest problems I have with Objectivism is this: Any sort of social safety net provided by a government, funded by a tax on all of society, is morally wrong. Period. No exceptions. (At least none that I can ever remember reading.)

    On the surface, "Everyone must pull their own weight" sounds good. And I agree with that up to a point. But I don't recall ever reading any sort of limit to this idea in Rand's work. Once again, I invoke the heart-string-pulling example of the disabled child whose parent's CANNOT AFFORD to provide sufficient medical care for the child to reach adulthood.

    If I read Ayn Rand correctly, that's just tough luck for that family. If the parents can't afford it, then the child will die. Society as a whole should not feel obliged to lift a finger to help. The child has a "need" that is most likely larger than he or his parents will ever be able to repay. Therefore, let him die.

    Am I mis-reading Rand here?

    If a society were fully "free" payment for government "services" would be entirely voluntary. Would it not?

    Proper services from government such as police, armed forces, law courts are necessary, after all. Willingness to pay for such services would stem from the fact that a citizen's interests are affected by such provisions (or lack of them.)

    Where Ayn Rand steps in to this question and its application is as follows.

    1.Government is NOT the rightful OWNER of a citizen's income. It cannot be allowed a blank check in how it disposes of tax money.

    2.The delimiting of government and its compulsory grab of tax revenues is the delimiting of the harm which can come from special interests dangers vis a vis equitable fair play for all.

    3.The Government MUST be the servant--NOT the ruler over its citizens. It is an AGENT and not a BENEFACTOR for one group over another. No gratuitious dispensing of one person's money for the sole benefit of another can be countenanced. Why? The obvious nature of injustice ineherent in income redistribution falls into question.

    The only just standard of success is merit, ability, productivity, talent and ownership of the fruit of one's own genius.

    The other side of this argument is that each person must be provided for simply because of their NEED.

    This is the de facto position of Communism: Each according to his NEED.

    Robin Hood robbed from the rich and gave to the poor. Making elected officials some kind of latter day Robin Hood is the worst sort of naive idealism.

    The poster for such Robin Hoods would be the disabled child whose parents cannot afford medical care. But, the reality--once those Robin Hoods came in to power would be astoundingly less heartbreaking.

    The poor and disabled cannot give money to politician's! It is the rich and influential who can steer the ship. Real Politik becames the dissonance between what Government "says" it will do for the disabled, the poor and the helpless and what it really does in the end.

    Oil Companies get subsidies right now. Farmers get money for NOT planting. Rules, regulations and lobbyists twist laws into pretzels.

    Giving power to men to take what you earn away from you and give it to others is a DANGEROUS idea! Unless you are at the bottom of the totem pole--it is intellectually dishonest to harbor such views.

    Government handouts are the carrot that lures voters to empower Robin Hoods into office. The politics of envy and victimhood are alive and well.

    Separating the rhetoric from the actual practice of social programs takes a strong stomach.

    Ask yourself these questions.

    1.Should any of your neighbors be able to walk into your garage and grab your lawnmowever if they can't afford one of their own?

    2.Should any poor person who can't feed themselves be able to walk into your kitchen and raid your refrigerator?

    3.Should any homeless person be able to sleep on your livingroom couch as needed?

    Then, why would you give a 3rd party (Government) the power to let them?

    See how practical a question this is morally?

    It all looks black and white on paper. But, objective reality is quite a handy standard to apply to such questions.

    1.Should poor people undertake the responsibility of bringing children into their marriage if they CANNOT AFFORD CARING FOR THEM?

    2.Should YOU pay for them to do so simply because they don't exercise rational decision making ability?

    These questions are fundamental.

  • Quentin
    Quentin
    "Are you living true to yourself?". .....jgnat

    No...no one does. There are too many obligations that must be satisfied. Then there is society itself, that defines being " true to yourself" as being selfish. Oh, there are selfish people. Who have a desire to put themselves first above all others, stepping on and over all who get in the way. They are not represenitive of society as a whole.

    So many people of talent live wasted lives because they are bullied and burdened with the stigma of being "selfish". Living true to yourself is a challenge, one that most people cannot live up to.

  • Carlos_Helms
    Carlos_Helms

    "With a professionally tested IQ of 142, I am intellectual enough to grasp that."


    Oh pshahh! The very idea!

    I professionally tested out at IQ95 back in '71; but I probably benefited from the curve.


    Carlos

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    When I speak of being true to myself, I mean to my own personal values. If that includes shelving my own desires in order for the greater good, as long as that is in my core values, I am living true to myself.

    I agree that no-one is living according to their own stated values all the time. It's a constant exercise.

  • Quentin
    Quentin
    When I speak of being true to myself, I mean to my own personal values. If that includes shelving my own desires in order for the greater good, as long as that is in my core values, I am living true to myself....jgnat

    Of course you do...that was not my meaning...forgive me, one reason I make few comments on the board, I do not express myself well in writing, never have... I'm a face to face type of guy...

    I was attempting to address group dynamics, society as a whole...my point is we, as a group, are not true to ourselves because of outside interference. Everyday "things" that get in the way of being what we should, or, wish to be. Just a thought, that's all...

  • Caedes
    Caedes

    Mrs Caedes commented that all of my work colleagues were nerds, in my career that is par for the course.

    I can't imagine ever describing myself as intellectual since I have met some people who really are clever and I know that I would be best described as above average.

    However I find the anti-intellectualism that is sometimes rampant in the world to be very saddening, it's like some people yearn for mediocrity. Perhaps some people are very uncomfortable knowing that other people are more intelligent than they are. Personally I like the idea of trying to improve and increase my knowledge.

  • Terry
    Terry

    However I find the anti-intellectualism that is sometimes rampant in the world to be very saddening, it's like some people yearn for mediocrity. Perhaps some people are very uncomfortable knowing that other people are more intelligent than they are. Personally I like the idea of trying to improve and increase my knowledge.

    This is just a guess. I think Political Correctness started the trend of anti-intellectuals.

    When you aren't allowed to call things AS THEY REALLY ARE you are required to change (the perception of) reality by coloring your descriptions carefully so as to avoid the unpleasant or unfortunate aspects. (Imagine not being allowed to name certain numbers, quantities or functions in arithmetic--what harm would come to measurement, computation and science?)

    Example: A person with retardation becomes learning impaired rather than retarded. Seems like a small, polite change, right?

    Eventually, not only are you being polite, you are changing perception to create blindness.

    The school system has fallen victim. Teachers are required to have children in their class that required profound amounts of time and attention including changing diapers on 10 and 12 year old kids. Less time is availabe to tutor advanced students. Consequently, those parents who can afford to--put the advanced students in special magnet schools where they can achieve at their own pace. The public schools are drained of achievers and only the students who really could learn are left to compete with those who get the majority of teacher attention.

    By treating the autistic, mongoloid or otherwise impaired child as being on the same educational level as those unimpaired by physical or mental defect (you can't even use the word "defect") the philosophical implications multiply.

    The erosion of achievers begins! What use to be a competitive society becomes a society whose NEED trumps all. Genius, achievement, excellence, talent becomes a shameful contrast to those who cannot achieve. So, hiding your brains becomes social survival!

    In certain ethnic communities (and not others) a shaming and shunning of those who TRY to achieve commences with social consequences!

    Being smart is labelled in a bad way. (You tryin' to be white!)

    The producers in the economy are labelled "FATcats" and people who earn wealth through achievement are seen as greedy bad guys.

    It is all downhill as the causes and effects multiply. The destruction of achievement-oriented society is a slow poison.

    When NEED is broken free from achievement and talent and hard work are punished---the Anti-Intellectual turns the evolutionary imperative upside down!

    Survival of the fittest becomes survival by penalty to the fittest.

    Imagine a Super Bowl where certain smaller and less talented players are allowed to make runs out-of-bounds and nobody is allowed to tackle them! What what that do to the integrity of the sport? Would it any longer even be a sport or competition? What kind of players would leave and who would be attracted as players? What impact would it have on the fan base?

    Think about it.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I don't like "instant thinking" that television and the internet supports. Thoughtfulness takes time.

    What is with "opinion polls" in deciding our leaders? What happened to picking the best candidate for the job based on their qualifications? I absolutely despise the "man on the street" interviews where random strangers are polled for their opinion.

    On the other hand, the geek now has an honored place in entertainment. Case in point, the popularity of shows like CSI, Bones, House, and Numb3rs. I just realized Americans might be unfamiliar with Numb3rs.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    The school system has fallen victim. Teachers are required to have children in their class that required profound amounts of time and attention including changing diapers on 10 and 12 year old kids. Less time is availabe to tutor advanced students. Consequently, those parents who can afford to--put the advanced students in special magnet schools where they can achieve at their own pace. The public schools are drained of achievers and only the students who really could learn are left to compete with those who get the majority of teacher attention.

    By treating the autistic, mongoloid or otherwise impaired child as being on the same educational level as those unimpaired by physical or mental defect (you can't even use the word "defect") the philosophical implications multiply.

    My God. What would you do with these people then, euthanize them?

    You speak of them as objects coming off an assembly line with defects. These are human beings.

    I worked in public schools, they were not treated as being on the same educational level as other children. They had special programs. Some of these children had severe disabilities. My hat goes off to those teachers. They are saints in my book.

    BTS

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