The growing irrelevance of the Watchtower message

by drew sagan 94 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  TJ - iAmCleared2Land

  I don't see this happening. The current GB members didn't invent this religion. They bought into this stuff just like the rest of us did. Therefore, I think we'll eventually see the WT undergo changes involving a complete reinvention of their eschatology. It would be easier for the GB to implement those kinds of changes because it doesn't have to involve any admission of error. They could explain it away in their mind by saying that Jehovah allowed them to be mistaken for decades so that people could come to worship him and now Jehovah has seen it fit to provide his people with a clearer understanding of the truth, etc.

  Ding ding ding. I agree 100%. I think the GB would be smartest to disavow any particular "end is near" eschatology, and instead invoke an "end is coming... but we have NO IDEA WHEN OR HOW SOON". This provides the disconnect between a specific date or immediate reward. Their focus would turn, as motivation, to a lifetime of loyalty that leads to some FUTURE resurrection reward... an intangible item that is hard to "disprove", since you have to die and be resurrected to know it was true. As with hellfire, a powerful motivating force in some religions, the fear of what will happen in your afterlife can be a powerful carrot that leads for a lifetime.

  This is a great thread.
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  james_woods

  Thanks for your comment, Quandry. You know, I almost did not post that statement about "most witnesses today do not actually believe in the end". But, the more I think about this, the more I tend to stand by it.

  For sure, the majority of them do not act like they believe it is right around the corner. And have not since the 1975 failure.

  And yes, I know that they will repeat it back to you as sort of a mantra chant, but as far as really believing it - it is something that is very remote, very far in the future, and many may secretly doubt the whole idea of a worldwide cataclysm at all. I know I did for about 4 years prior to 1975, and for 5 years afterward - until I finally just left.

  So in that sense, yes...the primary teaching of the JWs (that the end will be coming in your lifetime) is completely irrelevant. And they made it so themselves by repeating this over and over and over (for more than four generations now).
• 

  TD

  Quandry,

  I believe some have construed statements like the following from W12/15/03 to suggest the GB is toying with 120 year period of preaching from 1914 which would bring us to 2034.

  I've noticed that too. I think the GB would like to claim a 120 year period of preaching in the worst way, but don't see how they can ever actually do it. (As opposed to vague hints like the one you point out)

  If you take the Bible's numbers at face value:

  A.

  Noah was exactly 600 years old when the flood came. (Gen 7:11)

  B.

  Noah did not have any children until sometime after his 500th year (Gen 5:32)

  C.

  Noah's children were already grown and married when he was informed about the flood and given the mandate to build the ark (Gen 6:18)

  The enigmatic 120 year comment at Gen 6:3 says nothing about Noah or a deluge or even to whom God was allegedly speaking to.

  JW literature estimates that Noah had 40 to 50 years advance warning of the deluge, not 120. (cf. Insight On The Scriptures Volume II p. 507)
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  Jeremy C

  I've been re-reading Crisis of Conscience, and one of the really interesting things Ray brings out is is how many of the Gov. Body members were willing to consider alternatives to the 1914 date. It's obvious from what he experienced that among the leadership of the Witnesses, there is serious concern about the accuracy of that date - even 20 or 30 years ago!

  This is an interesting point that I had not considered in a while. Franz noted that two of the Governing Body members who expressed the most concern about the 1914 calculations were Nathan Knorr and Lyman Swingle. Swingle was disturbed by the fact that the date had been a carry-over doctrine from the Second Adventists; even being so blunt as to stating that the Witnesses got the date from them "lock stock and barrel".

  Knorr also expressed deep reservations about 1914, but did not wish to push the issue. Remember that all of these doubts were being expressed either prior to, or around the same time that Carl Olof Jonsson presented all of his research to the GB regarding the errors of the 1914 chronology. Since the initial first publishing of The Gentile Times Reconsidered; additional discoveries have been made which only bolster Jonsson's position.

  Drew sagan noted earlier that the Watchtower is saying less and less in their new books regarding their 1914 chronology. Newly converted Witnesses have a very limited picture regarding this doctrine. Many of them would probably be shocked if they were to ever read The Gentile Times Reconsidered. The problem is, few would truly understand the material or the full implications of it.
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  willyloman

  For sure, the majority of them do not act like they believe it is right around the corner.

  I could give countless examples of this from experience, and I have only been "out" for less than four years. Here is one:

  We were invited to dinner at the home of a m.s. and his wife, a pioneer for several years prior to her pregnancy. Now they had a two year old and another child still in diapers and she no longer pioneered. In the course of dinner, they talked about babies and the woman told us that her father in law (an elder I knew as a real "stickler" for theocratic order) was so proud of the birth of his first grandson that he opened a college account for him at a local bank in the amount of $1,000.

  This was presented to us as the most natural set of circumstances so both my wife and I just smiled and chewed our food, being careful not to choke on it.