Countdown to IRAN

by sacolton 69 Replies latest jw friends

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    I think that Iran (far from being crazy, even if their president does look crazy and say crazy things) has this strategy:

    They assume that the U.S. will bail out on Iraq soon enough to leave an unreconciled government. They can then use their influence to take over via people like the Al Sadr and others.

    With the veiled threat of Nukes, they will then be the dominate power in the middle east. They can then influence Saudi to accept their doctrines under the threat of the bomb. I think they really want power over the region, (and may not in fact actually even have a bomb), and feel that making peace or any concessions to the west would spoil that plan.

    I would not be surprised if they do not privately view a victory over the age-old enemy Iraq as something more satisfying and important than making war with Isreal.

  • llbh
    llbh

    Jamie the premise behind your argument ignores one thing, that 60% of Iraqis and 90+% of Iranians share the same brand of Islam.

    The Iranians have more in common with the majority of Iraqis than they do with Saudi Arabia who share the a different form if Islam.

    The easist and sure fire way to unite these veriy disapate groups would to invade or attack one of them

    Regards david

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    OK, David - I know that. But remember, it was Iran and Iraq that fought a years-long and suicidal border war a few decades back that nearly ruined both countries.

    I think there was way more animosity there than just dislike of Saddam Hussein and his Bathist regime. Of course, our western news usually claims that Saddam was really the agressor in that war.

    And for sure you are right that the Iranians do not have much use for the current Saudi government.

  • llbh
    llbh

    Jamie

    And who was is it supplied the weapons to Sadam ? The west . The Iraqi air defence system was made not 10 mi;les from me .

    The west supplied one side, the Russians and to a lesser extent the Chinese Iran.

    RAF Pilots trained Sadams Air Force in how to use its Chemical Weapons of mass destruction.

    The USA also gave the the Taliban and others Stinger missiles to use against the Russians in Afghanistan

    Regards David

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step
    The Iranians have more in common with the majority of Iraqis than they do with Saudi Arabia who share the a different form if Islam.

    Another important thing that is also frequently missed in this equation is that Iranians, unlike Iraqi's are NOT Arab. They are completely different race viewing themselves as second only to China as an ancient oriental civilization. The average Iranian historically views the average Arab Iraqi as rather suspect and primitive compared to themselves.

    The US invasion succeeded in doing something that T.E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) warned against decades beforehand. He argued that a frontal attack against ANY nation in the Middle East by a Western army would only succeed in uniting the normally rancourous factions to focus on the one common enemy attacking them. This is what has happened in Iraq, with previously bitter enemies putting aside ideologies and mustering their forces against an 'infidel' invader.

    It is only in recent times with the mass defection of Sunnis who were previously fighting with Al Quaeda and who turned against them, that coalition forces began to see less casualties.

    The Sunnis however have stated publicly that once they have defeated Al Quaeda, they will turn their attention back on the colation forces until they leave Iraq.

    I wrote this post just as the US invaded Iraq and my views have not changed:

    As you are probably aware I am not against war, I am against war being used before the last resort. I am yet to be convinced that the Coalition and its Foreign Intelligence Services knew what they doing when they stuck their noses into a wasps nest. I believe that the repercussions of this war for tomorrow’s world are not going to bring the positive changes to the Middle East that both Blair and Bush perceive, but I hope I am very wrong. I traveled throughout the Middle East many years ago and found that my perceptions of the people who live their had been grossly influenced by a misguided Western view. They simply do not perceive and understand most things in Western terms and are as alien to the West in their thinking as the Far East is. It seems that often what we are trying to do in the Middle East is to force people who inhabit that area to think like Westerners. I can tell you, you would have more success packing sawdust than attaining to this. The beheading of women, the maiming and torture of individuals did not start in Iraq, it is a centuries old way of life and is not all that the Arab or Oreintal culture and life is about!

    A clued in diplomatic corps, an intelligence service based on French or UK structures, and politicians who would be well advised to switch off 'The Waltons' and read a history book every now and again. Foreign policies are built on an understanding of the thinking of people outside ones own national boundaries. There seems to be an historical attitude that prevails in US Government circles that the whole world is either American or aspiring to be so when they grow up.

    HS

  • llbh
    llbh

    Hi HS

    Thank you for your perspective on things. I was alluding to the fact that the Iranians are not Arabs and share very different traditions.

    It is hard to believe, but the USA did not obtain any information from either the Swiss or French Governments about the poor infrastructure in Iraq . These governmnets had embassies there!!

    David

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Another important thing that is also frequently missed in this equation is that Iranians, unlike Iraqi's are NOT Arab. They are completely different race viewing themselves as second only to China as an ancient oriental civilization. The average Iranian historically views the average Arab Iraqi as rather suspect and primitive compared to themselves.

    Thank you for the history and geography lesson HS. If it wasn't for you we'd all still think they are all ragheaded sandfarming cameljockeys.

  • llbh
    llbh
    Thank you for the history and geography lesson HS. If it wasn't for you we'd all still think they are all ragheaded sandfarming cameljockeys.

    Maybe , but i understood the lesson HS was giving was in ethnicity

    David

  • Shawn10538
    Shawn10538

    Hopefully this is not news to anyone. Didn't we know we were going to war with Iran as far back as the first war with Iraq? Was it not specifically mentioned as on the agenda of the "War team" (republicans, and the Council on Foreign Affairs) that far back? Yes it was. Everything we have heard since then about Iran has only been propaganda used for the express purpose of getting the American people on board with it, which is an extremely easy thing to do as history has shown. Usually the American people are already signed up and in their war boots before the reason for the war has even left the mouths of the propagandists. Easiest thing in the world to do is to convince a bunch of poor people to go overseas and kill a bunch of other poor peopl for the rich people who told you to do it.

    Hopefully we all know that we are also going to war with Venezuela, or at least going to assassinate Chavez and over throw his government. After those countries anyone here can guess the next few countries we are either going to invade outrightly or in some other way destabiolize the governments of other countries by giving arms to guerilla groups that are opposing the present (usually democratically elected) government. Columbia has been on that list for some time. Chile was and will be again if they dare to disallow American and British corporations like Dole from owning all their land. Argetina of course has been the victim of US assasinations and government overthrowing. Haiti. Phillipines. Haiti again. Puerto Rico. Japan. Panama. El Salvador. Nicaragua...

    It is simply what we do here in America. It has been our foreign policy to do this since the close of the Civil War. See the book, Addicted to War for a few dozen other examples of the US doing this. Also see, Lies my Teacher Told me and The People's History of the US among many others.

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    The USA can barely cope with two wars now, militarily or economically.

    Wouldn't that be the rationale for breaking out the nukes? We're too busy to do this with troops?

    Does the administration really care about what anyone thinks any more?

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit