Imagine

by John Doe 116 Replies latest jw friends

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  John Doe

  The legal test is: what is the reaction a "reasonable" person would have to same situation. It is not: what is the reaction a person with post traumatic stress syndrom would have. For instance, flashbacks are often triggered by scent of shampoo or cologne that abuser wore. Should woman be able to sue manager of restaurant if she smells same cologne he is wearing or they use same soap in bathroom as her abuser used and she has flashback? Of course not, it is not reaction a reasonable person would have. It is reaction of person with psychiatric illness. Is society expected to alter realty and entire world to sensitivites of few mentally ill? It is impossible and unreasonable.

  You're talking about the "reasonable man" test. However, there is more than one way to apply it. For one, you can apply it a "what would a reaonable person do in the plaintiff's position," which is what you are doing here. However, you can also apply it as "what would a reasonable peron with the plaintiff's condition do?" This is the standard used in personal injury.
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  Junction-Guy

  Then you are making the person's condition the focus of your case, that person's condition was caused by earlier experiences. It would not be the fault of the restaurant, especially if they were clean and up to health codes.
  
  If you are going to allow this person to sue, then you should allow the above mentioned post about perfume and soap to sue also.
  
  Many other things too.
  
  This persons problem was caused by her previous life experiences, and it just isn't right and fair to punish the restaurant owner, and that is how most "reasonable" people would conclude. The trick in this case is to get a jury seated that is similar in mindset to the victim.
• 

  Junction-Guy

  Also if a "reasonable" person were to side with the plaintiff on this case, then would have to side with other cases such as
  
  
  1. Children of alcoholics who are traumatized to find out their local restaurant serves alcohol.
  
  2. rape victims who are traumatized due to the fact that the bathroom soap is the same scent as their perpetrator.
  
  
  I can think of numerous scenarios like the above that could literally break businesses if 'reasonable" people were going to not discriminate when it comes to personal responsibility and other issues.
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  John Doe

  But junction, you're failing to distinguish these by the fact that serving alchohol and selling perfumes are not violating any health standards or laws. That's the difference. It's when a violation of an existing standard or law causes harm, then the reasonable man standard of the plaintiff comes into play. If a store was selling alchohol with no liscense, then there very well might be a case where someone traumatized by it could recover.
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  Hortensia

  didn't read all six pages (sorry folks!) but I can say how I would react. Complain to the manager, refuse to pay for the meal, refuse any more meals from this restaurant, free or not. I would report it to the health department myself, and I would report it to the corporate headquarters of the company. But the main thing would be to never eat there again, and to tell all my friends why. It's not likely the health department, manager, corporation will do anything about the problem. But word of mouth can have very damaging consequences to a business. I once saw a cook (so to speak) at Carl's Jr. reach into his pants and scratch his crotch for a while, then without washing hands or wearing gloves, he picked up a hamburger bun and put a burger into it. I've never eaten at that chain since then.
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  Junction-Guy

  But John Doe, like I said earlier, even the cleanest restaurants up to health code are not immune to a stray hair. A "reasonable" person would know that there is no way you can keep something like this from happening, short of requiring all foodservice workers to shave their body bald, and even then it could still happen.
  
  If you are going to make it a health code issue then fine, but if it is due to previous psychological problems, then leave the health issue out of it.
  
  I have found numerous stray hairs in all my years of eating out, and it hasn't traumatized me.
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  John Doe

  Nothing can be done to prevent all car accidents as well. Does that mean there should be no recovery for car accidents?
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  Hortensia

  this thread reminded me of something funny that isn't related but that is too bad. Years ago when San Diego was going through a serious drought, we had to use grey water, bath water for instance, for things like washing the car. My room mate at the time came home one day and said she was just going to let her car stay dirty. She had spotted a pubic hair on her windshield while driving to work after washing her car with the bath water. She said it just wasn't worth it, she'd wait until the water crisis was over before washing her car again.
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  cognizant dissident

  Only some serious lack of sanitary practices by the employees of the restaurant.

  Not necessarily. Employee could have laid uniform out on bed in morning before dressing. Pubic hair sticks to shirt. Falls off in food at restaurant. Very plausible.
• 

  amicus

  I know that this bypasses your reason for asking this question.

  I hope that it does address it in a convulated way though.

  When I was a high school student, I had hair that was long enough to not be acceptable by some. I found after some searching, that the only job I could obtain was dishwasher. I had a background as a mechanic. My hair was an obstacle. My main income came from providing Marijuana to my local High School, so all I wanted was a cover.

  I worked for 1 1/2 years as a dishwasher in a "trendy" Calabasas resturant. I loved the "cover". I was appalled at the unsanitary conditions of this expensive eating establishment. My peers, usually surfers working as waiters, bartenders...bus boys if needed claimed that the conditions here were the norm.

  I have no reason to doubt what I saw. I eat out only as a last resort.

  More importantly, no one cooks food quite the way I like it. I view restaraunts as a necessary evil in our society.

  So, bact to the point, why sue for something that is the norm?