Vinny said: Mary, if you are going to quote a reply from me (based on someone else's quote), then at least get the facts straight. I never said JW's reaction to death is not ANY different than others. In fact I said it can be, based on their beliefs of a resurrection. What I QUOTED, and then replied to that quote as being a bunch of bull was the poster that said THIS:
"What Mary said is true. That JW brother is getting more sympathy and love HERE than he did at the kingdum hall."
**** AND (((THAT))) IS A LOAD OF BULL.
The brother of the deceased was seen crying, people were quoted as being in shock, they cancelled field service and more. None of that happened on THIS THREAD by any of us.
The point being that JW's still for the most part feel as much pain as anybody else when losing a loved one. Most are not, cold, heartless robotic humanoids, void of emotion or love, as what was implied by Sacolton. Yes, they may 'publicly' show it a bit differently. But the love, the pain, the tears are nonetheless there and usually no different than what anybody else in their shoes would be. But what I said was BUll, Mary, you seemed to twist and misapply.
Oh take a pill........You say that it was a "load of bull" that this brother was getting more sympathy from a bunch of apostates who didn't even know him, than by those who were there at the KH. That's your perogative, but some of us view it differently. The initial post said that out of all those that were there at the Hall, only one person went over to try and comfort this brother. Don't give me that crap that it was because they were all 'in shock'. It was this guy's brother---imagine how shocked he was. Are you trying to claim that everyone else there in the KH parking lot was in such a state of shock that they couldn't even walk over to him to give him a hug??
It is no different with JW's. They may glorify the WAY a JW died (such as for a stand against blood... which is one of the worst stands out there IMO), but it does not minimize the pain and sadness one feels along the way. Death is death. Losing somebody close will always cause great pain and sorrow. The JW's are misguided. They are for the most part victims. Just as you and I were once victims; believing JW's are used by God and we were fully devoted to doing all asked of us. But they have the very same feelings as you and I. We may no longer agree with their teachings. We may see them as being part of a destructive cult which literally destroys families and individual lives at times. But you go too far with your broad brush in painting them all to be void of raw emotion, feelings and compassion. It's not that simple. And definitely not true from my own 15 year experience as a JW!
I don't think anyone on here is trying to claim that Witnesses don't feel pain and cry and have emotions when someone dies. As I pointed out already, it is their reaction to the death that can and has in many cases, come across as extremely cold, uncaring and unconcerned. I'm not aware of any other Christian religion (or any religion for that matter) that would have one of their leaders call the grieving parents on the very day they had just buried their third child, and tell them that their one surviving son "shouldn't be talking to people at the funeral, because he's disassociated." That---in my opinion, has got to be one of the lowest things I ever encountered as a Witness and it most certainly does not display a warm, caring, loving or sympathetic attitude towards the family members.
This was not just one elder either, because we found out afterwards that the elder body had actually had a f**king meeting about it on the day of the funeral and it had all their support. Now tell me, does that sound like anything like a normal reaction to death? It sure as hell doesn't to me.
Jamiebowers says:.."I don't think lack of sympathetic response on the part of jws is bs. I experienced such as a jw when a dear "worldly" friend of mine died suddenly. The prevailing attitude was, "What are you crying about? At least he'll be in the resurrection".
I don't believe you. When JW's die, loved ones cry. Nobody ever said or even implied to me we should not cry. I think you are making things up on the fly. They may try not to wail and grieve uncontrollably, but they sure do cry and feel pain and sadness.
Oh, so now you're accusing Jamiebowers of lying because it doesn't fit with what you're trying to defend?? Give me a break. Six month after my brother died, my dad was working out in Service one day with one of the elders when he suddenly started to cry. The elder asked him what was wrong and when my father told him how much he missed my brother, the elder totally brushed him off and impatiently told my father: "...Why is that still bothering you?----You'll see him in the resurrection". When my sister died years ago, my parents were actually told that my sister was 'better off where she is because she'll get a resurrection' and at the most, my parents would only have to wait maybe 5 years to see her again (this was pre-1975). While this may have been an attempt to comfort my parents, it was a piss-poor job and just one more indication that Witnesses do not have good coping skills when it comes to death.
Not too long ago a popular 25 year old JW was killed in a Motorcycle accident. I was at the time disassociated. Yet a half dozen active JW's came over to see my wife and I because this kid was my neighbor and I had spent a lot of time with him on my boat fishing with my own kids when I was a JW. THEY ALL CRIED. They ALL spoke with me and saw no shame in expressing great sorrow for the young man, our friend, who was now gone. The funeral talk was as sorry as you can imagine, because JW policies say use funerals as the carrot stick to lure potential converts to the JW world. But even so, people (((individually))) feel all the pain that anybody else feels. They cry and mourn like everybody else.
Well Vinny, it sounds like the Witnesses are a lot more caring in your neck of the woods, am I'm glad for that. Unfortunately, it's not like that in alot of other congregations, which is sad. Your experience doesn't mean that all Witnesses show love and support when someone dies, anymore than my experience means that every Witness acts like an asshole when someone dies. Unfortunately, it happens too often, when in shouldn't happen at all. You were a Witness for 15 years? I was one for 35 years and unfortunately I have too much first hand experience with the way they react to death. I believe alot of the problem is that Witnesses are trained to always be 'living in the future', instead of the present and therefore, when something major happens in the present, (like death), they're at a loss as to how to cope. They therefore, fall back on the only thing they know: talk about the future resurrection. To many Witnesses, a future resurrection and the 'imminent end' of this System of things should be comfort enough for the family members left behind. Yes, they're shocked by an unexpected death just like everyone else, but like I said, they're not supposed to "grieve as the rest do who have no hope". I've heard this at funerals, I've heard it in talks, and I've heard it in casual conversation.
Once again, I put the blame for this attitude with those at the top, simply because they're the ones that promote this sort of warped thinking in the first place and it's fostered on down the line.
Vinny, you said on another thread:
Yet the PO told me right to my face that by allowing him to come back into my home "I was cutting the hand of Jehovah short and that ((( I ))) in fact might be the one destroyed at armageddon for bringing him back in my home."...................Some really cold, heartless, arrogant folks are used to run the congos of JW's.
How would you feel if someone accused you of lying about what happened? Maybe someone on here who did let their DF'd child move back home without any negative comments from the elders. Your post shows that while there are indeed good hearted Witnesses, there are too many "cold, heartless, arrogant" ones that can say and do the most hurtful things to people when they're down and out. Can you imagine a Catholic priest or a Protestant minister trying to discourage a parent from allowing their teen aged son to move home when he needed help? It shows an extremely warped view on the part of the elder. And unfortunately, your experience is not unique. While not every elder would say something so stupid, it's an all too common theme in this religion, just like their reaction to death.
