I am still trying to figure out why the slow fade is preferable to just leaving. At least as a regular single guy, you have a chance at finding a great girl.
Judicial Committee formed, can they do that with only one "witness"?
by BonaFide 45 Replies latest jw friends
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amama2six
It's that DF branding, I think. Some people shun you worse if you're DFed than if you just fade. I know my parents faded for awhile but weren't completely shunned by the members of the congregation. They still talked to them on occasion and whatnot. I think people with family still in the Borg especially prefer fading to DFing in hopes that their family will not completely cut them off.
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hillbilly
Buddy... those elders can do whatever they damned well please to do. Once they decide your "out"... your out. The "rules" are for show.
I think if I was doin' all that "grindin' " I would have just as soon got a little. Where were all these chicks when I was in?
Hill
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SnakesInTheTower
minimus:
BONAFIDE IS A FRAUD! NO FORMER CO asks these procedural questions. Don't waste your time with this one folks!
As someone else said on the board, I dont think BF's question is "procedural." If it were strictly procedure, then yeah, you would have a point minimus. I think the question Bonafide is asking is "can they get away with their version of procedure?" And in asking this, I think Bonafide is a bit naive. He seems to have been coddled in his previous foreign assignment and now has come back Stateside and is being subjected to the whims of local procedure. But we all know that never happens,..every cong walks lockstep with the Borg...yeah, right.
Some of what BF has said has been explained by him. Some things I think need serious clarifiications. I hope to talk to BF this weekend.
Let me disect BF's posts, as it seems I have nothing else to do... I hope he is telling the truth... I believe him at this point.
BF said he was in another country when he was a CO. The standards for CO are not as strong in some countries as it is in others, despite the fact that the GB directly appoints all COs. BF states he was a CO for 7 years. Maybe, maybe not..was it as a regular CO or merely a sub? He doesnt say. As I explained here not long ago, things are not done quitethe same in foreign countries as they are in the US. Even in this country, how many of us have ran across situations where the local hounders are beating to their own drums in their own little feifdoms?
I do think their are holes in BFs stories, and I hope by the time I have finished my conversation with BF, I can either plug those holes, or rip the fabric of his story to shreds.
Until then, let me say this: He sounds like he has made some stupid mistakes and now they have caught up with him. Here is his first post where he talks about his Organizational history (my comments are interspersed):
So I start thinking about all my "privileges." I went to MTS, took 600 pages of notes, went to my assignment, I am still serving under the MTS program. I was a C.O. for a few years until my circumstances changed. But I mean all those meetings, and appointments and Pioneer Schools and KM schools, and meetings with the D.O. and Judicial Committees, I mean this has been my WHOLE LIFE.
Sometimes I just go to the meeting, give my parts, deal with whatever issues we have to deal with after the meeting, and I sort of like pretend its all the same as before - that Jehovah is running everything through the Faithful and Discreet Slave. It's so much easier for me since I was raised in the truth.
Ok...so the first part... I cannot reveal the details because I am honoring BF's request. BF told me specifically which class he attended. He gave me a partial list of students from that class. I can also tell you that although I do not know bonafide's name yet, his list matches the list of students from that class that I have. I had (when I was still in) a friend from the same class as BF. I have attended alot of MTS graduations that were held in the same location, including my own. I have met the members of his class.
I believe that he attended MTS, 600 pages of notes is not inconceivable..hell, I still have several very thick binders of printed out references and notes from my class. He says he is still serving under the MTS program, which means that he was transferred from his foreign assignment back to the States for legit reasons and in good standing. (Unlike myself, I was booted out of the MTS program after a few months because I wouldnt take a rural US assignment without some sort of assurance of a job to support myself).
While it may be difficult to believe for us in the US, it is entirely conceivable for an MTS grad from the early days to have been appointed to the circuit work in a foreign land (and he himself narrowed it down to a very limited number of classes by stating he went when he was 23...20 years ago...only a handful of classes had graduated in the US by that point). Back in the late 80s, early 90s, MTS grads were indeed sent to overseas assignments and even after only being elders for a very short time, put into the circuit work. I can tell you that the curriculum I had when I attended certainly prepared me for the circuit work....its not rocket science. ..it also prepared me to know I wanted nothing to do with circuit work.
You have to also remember that MTS was still a new program back when BF attended, and back then MTS grads had a certain "aura" about them and they were accorded "status", esp in the foreign field. It was the equivalent of spiritual "rock star" status..... By the time I graduated MTS, it was not such a big deal..and in fact, MTS grads were often resented here in the States.
I was a regular pioneer since age 16. Ministerial Servant at 20. Ministerial Training School at 23 assigned to South America. I was told I was the youngest missionary in the world among JW's. Elder at 24, Circuit Overseer at 26.
A believable track record.. a fast track record...but still possible...I know..some of you are questioning the elder at 24 and CO at 26 part. Let's look at this time line. He was appointed as MS at 20...not unusual....MTS at 23...which would have made him the bare minimum age to get in to MTS... back then the Society did send MTS grads to overseas assignments...not now. It is also likely he was "the youngest missionary"...look at the stats of any Gilead Graduation in the Watchtower.... most Gilead grads had been regular pioneers at least 15 years (A at G, want to confirm?).... and since he had a foreign assignment, BF would have likely been given "missionary" status since MTS is an extension of Gilead. Elder at 24..... by this point, BF had been an MS 4 years...so not so unusual, but esp not since he was an MTS grad....MTS students, even the MSs, went through the entire Pay Attention elders manual, they received the same circuit training as elders...and many of my fellow MTS classmates that were MSs were appointed elders within a year of their graduation...
CO at 26...this part seems to be the sticking point. Again, I dont think this would happen so easily NOW..20 years later. ,..there are too many MTS grads who are long time elders and graduating from foreign classes...but back then,...it is a lot more conceivable.
I was a circuit overseer for 7 years, then came back to U.S., served as an elder. I recently moved congregations and have not been recommended yet as an elder, although I give parts and participate in shepherding.
so he was a CO from 26 to 33.....came back to the US...served as an elder...and he said he is still under the MTS program. He said he recently moved. His appointment as an elder has not yet been made..yet he functions as an elder... this is also usual. I did the same..(functioned as an elder) when I left my MTS assignment until the local yokels ignored the recommendation letter from my MTS assignment congo and made me wait a year based on gossip..... BFs reappointment is in danger because of these questions about his behavior with the sistahs......
The Witness thing is just so burned into me that I automatically go in service and study for the meetings and stuff. Its hard to see it as fake when everyone around you is doing the same thing.
yeah, the same was my attitude after MTS... i seen behind the curtain of the Wizard of Oz and seen the old men.... but kept on for another 6 years....
Now his upcoming JC meeting:
An old girlfriend is accusing me of "grinding" which is Porneia according to the Society, and a disfellowshipping offense. We did sort of be alone and mess around, like wrestling I guess. No grinding. But she and I met alone several times. Actually she wanted to really cross the line, and I refused.
The elders have scheduled meetings with me. What should I admit to? I already told the other elders there was no "porneia" but they are scheduling meetings with her there to face me
this kinda bothers me a bit... if the "grinding" as he calls it was while they were clothed (if there was no actual contact with genitalia between them), then it was not "pornea"..a point BF should know....... "uncleanness, loose conduct" yes.... and depending on frequency and circumstance, a DFing offense... either way, BF was stupid doing something like this...he should know that the consequences for someone in his position are going to be harsher than for the average R&F publisher.
Yes, I was a CO but its so much different when you are the one on the hotseat
How many politicians, law enforcement, prosecutors, etc.. have you seen on the news that "know better" then find themselves tongue tied once they get put under the lights? I have been on both sides of the JC table...and I can tell you if I knew then what I know now, there is no way in hell I would have been deleted as an MS way back when. As an elder, I avoided being JCs multiple times not only because I did nothing wrong, but because I knew how to stop renegade elders.... it didnt stop a certain elder from trying to pin things on me...he just wasnt successful...
I am not going to past the whole post from his meeting with the elders from Aug 2 : http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/163488/3028259/post.ashx#3028259, I will say this...he was not wise in his actions..and even if technically he did nothing wrong (per Borg rules), they are going to get him if they have an axe to grind with him. What he described the elders investigating him as doing I fully believe. BF should not be surprised..although how to handle JC meeting "officially" was discussed in MTS, those tactics are not... that is left to the local hounders to develop that local skill... (just like the US government denies their interrogation techniques..not officially sanctioned, but certainly taught and carried out)...
ok..this piece I will quote:
So now that I denied everything, they are calling every sister I ever knew, including when I served in another country, all the congregations where I was a circuit overseer, they are interviewing my family. They said I confessed to my sister that I fool around sometimes. They are going to bring at least 7 sisters who say I flirted with them, or was making out with them in secluded places.
This will be extremely time consuming...corresponding with other congregations in other branches.. BF would have to have pissed someone off royally for it to go that far. I think they will find sisters in the US..since he has been here 10 years..if he has been fooling around with any of these sisters, or even if it was just that he spurned their advances, they will find enough "witnesses" to convict BF.
Either way, I think BFs days as a MTS darling are all but over. I hope he finds a life outside of the borg...
Think what you want Minimus.... I respect your comments on this board...and if it proves out that BF is pulling our collective leg, I will certainly eat crow and apologize...
but for now... he has given me enough information to believe the story... but then again...so didnt Trevor/Linda....how many were fooled by that?
Snakes ()
sorry so damn long...I just felt the need to comment on Bonafide's story...I hope to know more after the weekend talking to BF... AND BONAFIDE...I EXPECT THAT PHONE CALL. I am sticking my neck out here after initial doubts......so dont fail me....or maybe I wont be so kind in my next post ... (but what you have shared and asked I keep to myself, I will, so no worries there)
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Awakened at Gilead
WHY DOES EVERY FRIGGIN POST OF BONAFIDE HE GETS CALLED A TROLL??????
I know that what he says may sound naive, but after so many years in the cult, and being a virgin following the rules, he certainly is.
But as I have noted on other threads, I have spoken to the man, I know his name, and he (as Snakes says) knows details that only an MTS should know. I agree that he should know about procedure, but these guys are on a witch hunt to get him.
Instead of attacking the man, why dont you give him the benefit of the doubt? Give him some positive suggestions, and maybe we can convince him to get out of the borg and stop wasting his time, as Jgnat pointed out.
I understand his angst, I was a Gilead grad and under the org's spell of guilt for 24 years. Only leaving it can the spell break. BF is still messed up mentally with all the BS he believes. He needs to seriously deprogram. AND GET OUT OF THE FRIGGIN ORG!!!!\
A@G
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Gregor
Sometimes they call someone in on what amounts to an anonymous, drive-by accusation. I've been on those JCs. 9 times out of ten the accused will fess up. (Making them more honest that the committee) If they don't you have to back off. God, how I miss the old days in the Gestapo!......not.
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SnakesInTheTower
yknot:
Has there been any confirmation if the CO is involved are we still talking rural yahoos railroading over congregational politics... (cuz we all know how Elders love it when a MTS show up in there KH)
based on the area code of the phone number BF gave me, I doubt it is a rural congo..but that doesnt mean the local hounders dont resent the hell out of his presence. I hope to have a better handle on the story by the end of the weekend. I wont defend BFs actions with the sistahs....very unwise (in relation to how the Borg operates)...and very human by the way...I am not casting stones at BF...but unwise considering the circumstances BF finds himself in... baaaaad idea....
I once knew an MTS grad that was a CO...got busted...not with a "sister" but with a "worldly" gal...lol.
A at G...
Agreed...I know I initially questioned BF, and rightly so..the story is pretty out there...... I think between A at G and myself talking with BF, we can figure out the entire story and quickly.
Unless you think we are trolls too? LOL
Snakes ()
edited to add:
I do know that if a Gilead grad or MTS goes rogue, they will stop at nothing to get rid of them... look at me...
I am shocked..shocked..that they havent come after me...I think it is a matter of time, esp since I am posting about being an MTS grad on the public part of the forum.
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Awakened at Gilead
Unless you think we are trolls too? LOL
Snakes ( )
Can you really trust someone with such a scenic avatar? LOL
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SnakesInTheTower
A at G:
Can you really trust someone with such a scenic avatar? LOL
you mean in comparison with my old avatar:
edited to add..guess I cant embed a pic....