Why Evolution Should Be Taught

by hamilcarr 360 Replies latest jw friends

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  funkyderek

  yknot:

  Okay, then compromise..... you get the basics of evolution and they get the basics of intelligent design in the same discussion...........

  I'm not entirely opposed to that. After giving the accepted scientific evidence-based answer to a question, a teacher could always add: "Of course some people think a magic man did it." It might be best simply to state this at the start of therm, that for every explanation given for any phenomenon there is probably someone somewhere who has a contradictory supernatural "explanation". That way, the minimum time necessary would be spent on such frivolities.

  Rome wasn't built in a day.

  Perhaps, but surely you see the need for history teachers to also teach children that actually Rome was built in a day, or at least to teach both viewpoints and let them decide for themselves.
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  yknot

  Derek

  Your dismissing comments towards compromise is the exact reason why this will never be anything more then an untaught chapter in public school science textbooks around the US for several decades to come.
• 

  funkyderek

  yknot:

  Your dismissing comments towards compromise is the exact reason why this will never be anything more then an untaught chapter in public school science textbooks around the US for several decades to come.

  What? It's my fault that your country's education system is going to hell in a handbasket? How do you figure that? Even if I had the slightest influence on anybody who could make a difference, how would that influence cause them to do the exact opposite of what I suggest? I'm advocating teaching science in science class, and you seem to be saying that unless I also agree that fairy-tales should be taught alongside it, then nothing at all will be taught. Where do you come up with this stuff?
• 

  Galileo

  Your dismissing comments towards compromise is the exact reason why this will never be anything more then an untaught chapter in public school science textbooks around the US for several decades to come.

  How can there be a compromise? ID is not science. You want to teach unscientific religious views in a science class. If you succeeded, than what would stop astrologers from demanding their compromise, and devoting equal time to astrology when astronomy is being studied? What would stop numerologists from demanding their equal time in math class?

  The fact that you seem to be missing is that their is a massive amount of data confirming the theory of evolution. There is no data confirming ID. Creationists are not being targeted for exclusion. They are being treated the same way as everyone else that has a hypothesis that turns out not to be supportd by objective evidence.
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  yknot

  What I am saying is that evolution is already in the American public school system.

  If evolutionist want more than that they will have to give up some speaking ground to those who disagree with evolution. If not, things will continue as they have since the introduction of evolution into the textbooks.... which commonly is just a brief mention by the teacher followed by his/her disagreement on the theory due to creationism. If the student is interested, they may read the chapter themselves, but it will not be required to complete the course.

  There is more to science then the theory of evolution.

  As far as Derek's comments about the USA.... ebbs and tides.... presidents come and presidents go.
• 

  funkyderek

  yknot:

  If evolutionist want more than that they will have to give up some speaking ground to those who disagree with evolution.

  That's completely ludicrous. An important aspect of science is currently being taught poorly if at all. Your "solution" is to teach fairy tales as well, on the basis that if the fairy tales aren't allowed equal time, then the science won't be taught at all.

  If not, things will continue as they have since the introduction of evolution into the textbooks.... which commonly is just a brief mention by the teacher followed by his/her disagreement on the theory due to creationism. If the student is interested, they may read the chapter themselves, but it will not be required to complete the course.

  You are absolutely right that that is the problem (or at least part of it). Evolution is being ignored or disparaged by teachers with a religious agenda, and students have to teach themselves if they wish to get anything close to a useful education. But you are absolutely completely totally and utterly wrong about the solution - I don't think you could be more wrong if you tried. What needs to happen is for evolution to actually be taught properly by the people who are paid to teach it - and not for those with a religious agenda to be allowed to legitimise their unscientific beliefs by teaching them to impressionable young minds in a science class.

  There is more to science then the theory of evolution.

  Of course there is, but it's the cornerstone of biology, and needs to be taught as such.
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  yknot

  Derek,

  Just because you feel that evolution is "right" and "absolute" doesn't make it so.

  It is not a cornerstone of biology.........That comment is only a battle and rally cry of evolutionist

  The your way or the highway position of evolution must be taught will not have any success. Evolutionist in many states are a minority voice amongst the populace. Bashing creationist will not help your cause. The name calling, fairy tale insinuations only act as proof of unreasonablness of evolutionary extremist, making it easier for creationist to dismiss everything which you are trying to convey.

  So the question becomes how bad do evolutionist really want this actually taught to public school students?

  What are they willing to do in order to make it a reality?

  So far.... just a lot of talk, and sour grapes name calling.
• 

  funkyderek

  yknot:

  Just because you feel that evolution is "right" and "absolute" doesn't make it so.

  Of course not. My feelings have nothing to do with it. The fact that evolution's a fact is what makes it a fact.

  It is not a cornerstone of biology.........That comment is only a battle and rally cry of evolutionist

  What are you talking about? You make it sound like the term "evolutionist" doesn't include just about everybody, when of course it does - certainly anybody working in biology. It's what turns biology from an exercise in cataloguing into an endlessly fascinating and rewarding field of discovery.

  The your way or the highway position of evolution must be taught will not have any success. Evolutionist in many states are a minority voice amongst the populace. Bashing creationist will not help your cause. The name calling, fairy tale insinuations only act as proof of unreasonablness of evolutionary extremist, making it easier for creationist to dismiss everything which you are trying to convey.

  Sure. I'm no politician, and to overcome people's irrational prejudices may take a lighter touch than mine. But your suggestion that we pander to people's irrational beliefs seems to me like it will just produce another generation of ignorant creationists.

  So the question becomes how bad do evolutionist really want this actually taught to public school students?

  What are they willing to do in order to make it a reality?

  So far.... just a lot of talk, and sour grapes name calling.

  In most of the world this is of course a non-issue. People keep their religious beliefs out of the classroom and out of the workplace. To be honest, I don't know how to solve the problem. But I really really don't think that pretending that the creationist position is equivalent in any way to the evolutionist position will help. That is after all how the proponents of creationism in its varying guises have managed to sneak it in. By suggesting that there are two competing theories and that both should be taught, they make a superficially appealing case. But, in reality, there's no controversy. The views of creationists are purely religious views and have no place in a science class.
• 

  MissingLink

  "What are they willing to do?" Is this some sort of negotiation?

  What do you expect: "OK - We'll pretend that your fairy tale is possibly not BS, IF you let us do our job and teach science." We also want to teach about the nearly spherical earth - what do we have to give the flat earth guys so they'll let us do it? How about they each get $50 vouchers to IHOP?

  Do each of the dozens of creation fairy tales have to negotiate separately, or do they have a collective bargaining agreement?

  Damn you Derek for screwing up the US education system! I think this means you're getting first round. It's only fair.
• 

  yknot

  Balk all you want boys.....

  I am as many others are.......happy to keep the brief teacher mention and move-on to the next chapter for discussion.