Why Evolution Should Be Taught

by hamilcarr 360 Replies latest jw friends

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    KingArthur:

    Derick: Just curious, what have you studied? What have You read, did you do University? Or are you just spouting off?

    I'm merely an enthusiastic amateur. What studying I've done on this subject has been in my own time and on my own terms. I don't think I'm "just spouting off" though, but if you think anything I've written is inaccurate please let me know. I'm always happy to be corrected by those who know more than I do.

    I love your arrogant attitude,

    What did I write that seems arrogant to you? And why would you love what you perceive to be arrogance?

    if I was still a JW I'd quote “love builds up but knowledge puffs up” remember that one?

    Of course, it's part of the insidious anti-education attitude endemic to JWs and to cults in general. Traces of it can still be found here among those who think that their ignorance of a subject should be given the same consideration as other people's knowledge.

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    Ok I have spent my life calling what you call evolution, adaptation.

    But I will say if something is scientifically observed to be happening, then its happening.

    So call it evolution. But that term has an atheistic tint to it.

    I think there is a bigger religious issue of whether there is a God or not.

    I'd say in the past 3 years I have had 5 serious conversations with atheist who were not happy and were suicidal, 2 conversations with people who believed in God who wanted me to kill them.

    I will agree the prison population is not one made up of a lot of atheist.

    But many of the people who have problems have no guidance or direction, which you will say is not a problem of atheism and I can see your point.

    Why do people behave criminally, there are a number of reasons,

    The most simple is there are trying to satisfy, fulfill their basic needs; food, clothing, shelter, love, belonging,

    Any one of us may act criminally trying to find food or shelter.

    Then after that catagorie of criminal we have those who are taking garbage in and putting garbage out. Listening and watching violent antisocial material.

    Then the 3rd reason people would act criminally would be they are insane, mentally instable, organically deficient.

    Many criminals intake through their eyes and ears violence, evil and corruption.

    Garbage in = garbage out. Once again not evolution, atheist problem.

    But the only people that I see or hear that counsel people to walk the straight and narrow, to watch what they take in their eyes and ears seem to be in my part of America, bible believing Christians.

    I've never seen atheist come to the jail to try and turn people lives around.

    I dont hold biologist in the high esteem that you and your fellow atheist do,

    I figure a biologist is someone who couldnt get in or make it through medical school.

    There is a famous scientist, doctor, author who comes to my jail from time to time to encourage the inmates to walk down the right side of the street. Dr. James P. Gills. One book he wrote that I have and have read is "Darwin under the Microscope"

    Science is the effort to discover and increase understanding of how the physical world works.

    The mechanisms of evolutionary change are natural selection, genetic drift, and gene flow.

    I have no agenda.

    It just does not make sence to me evolution without a desiger. I think it is more unlikely than likely.

    I have read a lot about it over the years and the math does not add up for the earth to have been here long enough given the distance from the sun to have favorable conditions for life to have evolved.

    Plus I think we are too complicated to have not been designed.

    I have taken college anantomy and physiology and to me the body seems to complicated to have assembled itself without an intelligence directing it.

    I dont neccessarly believe there is a loving kind benevolent God, I'm not saying there is not, but I'm not convinced there is.

    But I believe some intelligence put life into motion. Just like there is an intelligence that makes the internet work.

    Computers and the internet work and viruses and programs are launched and the designer or programer may have no interest or knowledge of everything that is going on as a result of his programing.

    I have no agenda. I'm not lying about the books I have and have read. I work midnights at a jail. I get to read all night and get paid for it, thats what I like about my job.

    I will say I am tired of reading Creation and evolution books, I find them basically the same with 5% of the words changed. Its like watching a PeeWee Herman movie, "I know you are but what am I"

    Each side uses the same arguments to make their points. I work in law enforcement In Florida, that makes a hung jury.

    The only way a jury can send someone to the electric chair is with evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

    I dont see where the atheist evolutionist have established that yet.

    People see what they want to see and that goes for you as well as me. I think you have much more of an agenda than I.

    When someone does a good job of explaing abiogenisis and demonstrates it in the laboratory, I will change my argument.

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    yknot:

    Yet you slammed my associates of science in biology on another thread.....LOL,

    Grant you it is a step below a bachelors but it definitely ranks over amateur.

    Not at all. It was your knowledge - or rather your lack of knowledge - that I "slammed". I do remember expressing surprise that someone could gain such a qualification with so little knowledge - but of course that amply demonstrates the dismal state of your country's educational system. Not only can someone pass high school without understanding the basics of biology, someone can actually get a third-level qualification in biology without such understanding.

  • MissingLink
    MissingLink
    I think there is a bigger religious issue of whether there is a God or not.

    Evolution has nothing to do with the existence or non-exsitence of god. Its a totally different subject. Admitedly, a large portion of people who believe in evolution are athiests, there's also a very large percentage (especially in the USA) who believe in evolution and also believe in a God who kicked things off. Perhaps writing the first strand of DNA, and in his infiinte wisdom knowing what it would evolve into. Or maybe controlling the environment to "steer" the evolutionary processes.

    At least these people aren't ignoring obvious facts that are put before them, just because they don't like how it feels.

    I think it's safe to say that most athiests are evolutionists, but it's not at all accurate to say that all evolutionists are atheists. You'll do much better to avoid linking evolution and atheism to mean the same thing. You can have your faith if you think that's doing you any good, and you don't have to hide your eyes when scientific truths are shown to you.

  • yknot
    yknot
    but of course that amply demonstrates the dismal state of your country's educational system.

    Sticks and stones Derek.........why do have to take such a narrow view in the matter. So much in life is not black and white but shades of grey.

    It is those who act as absolutist that create polarization.

    My country tends to like options, if you & those like you want the chapter to be mandatory reading, then creationism has a place too.

    Neither theory are 'taught' at the moment.....

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    yknot:

    Sticks and stones Derek.........why do have to take such a narrow view in the matter. So much in life is not black and white but shades of grey.

    And some of it is black and white. The earth is round, not flat and is some 4.5 billion years old, not 6,000. No amount of pouting, whining or special pleading will alter those facts. And I, for one, will not pretend otherwise merely to feed people's delusions.

    It is those who act as absolutist that create polarization.

    This is an issue of absolutes. One side is completely right while the other is completely wrong.

    My country tends to like options, if you & those like you want the chapter to be mandatory reading, then creationism has a place too.

    Mythology has no place in a science class. People should, of course, have the option to study mythology as a separate subject.

    Neither theory are 'taught' at the moment....

    I don't think things are that bad yet, but where that's true it's due to you and those like you, those who try to pretend that the accumulated research of hundreds of thousands of scientists should be given no more weight than fundamentalist folklore.

  • yknot
    yknot

    Derek Sweetie,

    The earth is round

    Technically speaking in your world of black and white and absolutes..... no it is not round!

    This is an issue of absolutes. One side is completely right while the other is completely wrong.

    Nope, evolution is subject to changes and rewrites based on future discoveries or interpretations of past opinions.

    Mythology has no place in a science class.

    Evolution versus creationism is as debatable as trinity versus non trinity..... you can't fully prove one or the other absolutely. Maybe you can in your mind but evolutionary science is not and never has been absolute.... variables are always in play.

    I can not stress enough that science is taught but at present both of these two theories are being avoided and open for student's personal interpretation.

  • LisaAnn
    LisaAnn

    yknot says:
    I can not stress enough that science is taught but at present both of these two theories are being avoided and open for student's personal interpretation.

    OH MY GOD!!! Are you saying that my preteen daughter will be denied an equal education when she goes to High School?! I can't believe that. You say you're from the MidEast but I'm guessing that's a ruse ;-) and you live more like in the MidWest where this may be true. I'm sure hoping so.

    I'd like you to know that there are many, many patriotic people here who love their country and are proud to be Americans, and we fight for the Separation of Church and State as our forefathers set forth in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I'm sick of extremists trying to hijack my country. Thomas Jefferson would be appalled.

    Religion needs to be taught ONLY at home until the child is older, then a comparative religion class with all the different creation myths is appropriate.

    I have two questions:

    1) If the Bible didn't tell the Genesis story, would Creationism ever be taught? Ever?! If you can answer that truthfully, you've got to agree that this is a religiously-based argument and not based on scientific evidence.

    2) When 'alternatives' are taught side-by-side with evolution, are the Hindu and Native American creation myths given equal billing to Biblical stories? Ditto above.

  • KingArthur
    KingArthur

    Not at all. It was your knowledge - or rather your lack of knowledge - that I "slammed". I do remember expressing surprise that someone could gain such a qualification with so little knowledge It's this sort of staggering level of ignorance that probably makes it pointless even trying to discuss this subject with you. Well, explain it to me then. Because from here, it seems like you are just ridiculing something you know little or nothing about. Why do u assume those who disagree with you are ignorant? ' this ought to answer the arrogant part derrick. You never answer my question, what have your read or know. What did I write that seems arrogant to you? And why would you love what you perceive to be arrogance? I did not mean this literally. When I was a Jw I remember an elder saying “there are only MS and Elders and Pioneer everyone else is a nothing” Was that you Derrick? Were you an arrogant elder who has become an arrogant an ex-jw? I guess you must know I have your number.

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr
    I'm sick of extremists trying to hijack my country.

    And that's the reason why so many non-Americans have a very negative biassed image of the US.

    Most believing Americans, however, don't follow the extremists' opinion.

    "of Americans in the twelve largest Christian denominations, 89.6% belong to churches that support evolution education"

    http://www.emporia.edu/biosci/schrock/docs/Eagle-25.pdf

    It seems that the creationist community, though in a minority position and least representative of the values the US stands for, has a disproportional impact on education policy and the public debate.

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