Do JW's reveal all their doctrines to those they study the Bible with?

by BonaFide 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Mary

  Rosalee said: Each person has to go through all the questions in the Organized book before baptism and this subject is well covered there. So no one becomes a Witness without full knowledge ... and you know it.

  That's not the question Rosalee. As per usual, you are evading and twisting the original question into something else to try and make it appear that the Organization is not a cult. The question is: Do JW's reveal all their doctrines to those they study the Bible with? The answer is: No, or if they do, it's way down the road once the person has been thoroughly indoctrinated.

  This is the main reason why there are now two Watchtowers: One for public consumption, one for private discussion and it was done purely for damage control. Imagine someone at the door getting the Watchtower, actually reading the whole thing through and coming across this little gem:

  The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home. It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum

  Every 'worldly' person I've ever talked to about this sick doctrine of shunning family members are absolutely shocked that any religion that claims they alone have the Truth because they "have love amongst themselves", could practice such a think. They can't believe it when I tell them that there are families who have not had contact with perhaps their children or parents for 20+ years thanks to this doctrine.

  Apparently, the goons down at headquarters have attempted to keep some of their crazier and harmful doctrines, under lock and key so that the average person might not know about them. Kind of a strange pass time for a religion whose sole purpose is to 'preach this good news of the kingdom' to everyone on earth.
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  BabaYaga

  BRAVO, Mary!!!!!
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  darth frosty

  Ya'll ever notice, how when Bonafide is called out in one of his post, he dis-appear's?
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  james_woods

  I just cannot get over the insane irony of it all.

  Here we have a perfectly good thread on "do JW's reveal all their doctrines to those they study the Bible with"?

  A JW loyalist, trying to say they do not do so, then comes on here to say "JW's do not recruit".

  An object lesson in the misdirection/misrepresentation of their real doctrine if ever there was one.
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  sf

  In one of my apostate field activity threads, I share about the day I followed jws around the hood while they TRIED to knock on doors. Asking them why it is they do not tell the "householder" the policies that they will have to "dedicated their lives to" in order to become a "jehovah's witness"? The elder said it is because blah blah blah...

  It takes a lot of work to get the facts out to the public. Just wish more jws that post here would do their part!

  sKally
• 

  bennyk

  Rosalee writes:

  Point (1). When young children are baptized it is their decision. They come from families who are already serving Jehovah.

  When young children are baptized, it is often because of pressure from their parents, as well as their peers. The children come from families who are already serving the Watch Tower Society, not neccessarily Jehovah.

  Point (2) The screaming during rape is a Biblical mandate ... not made up by man.

  Rosalee seems to forget that such screaming was mandated in the Mosaic Law, and is thus not binding on Christians. Also, that the Watch Tower Society has changed their teachings on this subject repeatedly.

  Point (4) There is no recruitment. The Good News of the Kingdom is being preached worldwide as Scripturally foretold.

  If you honestly believe there is no intent to recruit, you aren't much of a Witness. The "Good News of the Kingdom" is indeed being preached worldwide, but not by Jehovah's Witnesses, who are preaching 'another Gospel' -- one condemned in the Scriptures. (Gal. 1:8,9)

  Everyone has the freedom to choose to accept or reject the message.

  Of course, if you use your freedom to reject the Society's unscriptural teachings and blasphemous claims after baptism, you will be shunned by those still under mind control -- which may include many of your relatives and conditional friends...
• 

  Gozz

  Interesting question.

  The JWs I met and discussed with never gave a full picture. My "study" adventure took more than five years studying with Witnesses from different backgrounds. I never did agree practices regarding the blood doctrine and made that clear; I was required to write a letter of dissociation from the Church, I refused, and clearly; I never did write a formal letter, and did keep the Chirch people as friends. I had two other major issues regarding JW doctrine. No one mentioned the implication of these. No one hinted anything about the Draconian measures that would result from active disagreement.

  Disfellowshipping was for serious wicked acts. And I did meet a disfellowshipped lady from a congregation then; I knew her, knew what she'd 'done'; it was sth human; we had a discussion; she poured out her heart. I felt it was human; in my subsequent discussions with my pioneer, JW elder friend with whom I 'studied', his reaction was calm and collected, a picture what a human reaction to such an encounter would be. There were words about watching out so as not to be influenced; I assured that couldn't happen. I'd gotten romantically involved with a non-JW lady; surely mentioned it to my pioneer, JW elder 'friend'; there were long discussions about these things; there were no violent reactions; the good lady later got an invitation to the KH with the support of pioneer Elder 'friend'.

  I definitely hadn't been paying attention.

  The 'betrayal' came shortly after baptism when some conflict about blood reignited a discussion of the practice on JW practice on blood, and then a little something about talking to a disfellowshipped 'brother'. I'd not been paying attention to the human angle of the JW experience. I'd called the brothers; the reactions were - to put it mildly - disappointing. No more of those 'stimulating' doctrinal discussions; the message was 'you're baptised now, you're responsible for you'; no, the words weren't said exactly, but it was clear what was meant.

  I''ll strongly disagree that many would know what they were getting into. And I've one ready example to support this: distant cousin had been studying with JWs and was encouraged by a relative who knew of my JW encounter to call and discuss with me. We did, and he confronted his 'study conductors' with the simple questions: "What will happen if I decide not to be a JW after getting baptised?"; "Can I openly disagree with teachings I don't agree with; I do this at my Church; will there be any problems?"; "What is a Judicial Committee; what happens there; are there documented guidelines for things that may transpire in the context of a Judicial Committee?". "Are some written materials off limits for me as JW?"He had the discussion. Then I sent e-copies of relevant materials, including a copy of the Elders' Manual. A few weeks later, his baptism was called off; it was six weeks away.

  It didn't feel like a revenge; it was a feeling of rage. His conductors were intelligent people. How do some JWs, who do appear to know, justify hiding information they're aware would have led one to a different conclusion?
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  james_woods

  It didn't feel like a revenge; it was a feeling of rage. His conductors were intelligent people. How do some JWs, who do appear to know, justify hiding information they're aware would have led one to a different conclusion?

  The sickness runs so deep, that a witness in good standing who actually honestly revealed some of the embarrasing facts to a pre-baptism student might well get called in for discipline himself - on the grounds of "stumbling" a potential recruit.
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  yknot

  Dear Sister Rosalee,

  Point (1). When young children are baptized it is their decision. They come from families who are already serving Jehovah. They aren't pulled off the streets and forced into baptism.

  As a born-in, I can assure you every single minor baptized in my KH did so at the pressure of both parents & Elders.....none of them understood the fulll impact of their dedication to the spirit-directed organization..... Even Jesus was 'about' 30.

  Point (2) The screaming during rape is a Biblical mandate ... not made up by man.

  This is a mosaic law.....

  ***w06 10/15 p.6 Taking in Knowledge of God — How?***

  Jesus came to fulfill the Mosaic Law, which served as "a shadow of the good things to come." (Hebrews 10:1; Matthew 5:17; Luke 24:44, 45) Taking its place was "the law of the Christ," which is far superior to the Mosaic Law.—Galatians 6:2; Romans 13:10; James 2:8.

  Point (3) Not being able to remarry except on the grounds of adultery is Scriptural .. not a manmade law.

  Actually it on the grounds of 'fornication' which of course is translated from the word 'pornea' which has a broader meaning then just intercourse, but anyone divorcing and remarrying without those grounds subjects themselves to committing adultery....

  Point (4) There is no recruitment. The Good News of the Kingdom is being preached worldwide as Scripturally foretold. Again no man-made rule.

  (Matthew

  28:18-20) . . .. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. . . .

  (1

  Corinthians4:6) . . ."Do not go beyond the things that are written," in order that YOU may not be puffed up individually in favor of the one against the other.

  Unfortunately, the imperfect slave has been known to" go beyond the things that are written".

  ***

  w55 7/1 p.411 par.15 Christian Baptism for the New World Society***

  15

  A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit. This shows, among other things, that Christianity is not a denominational affair, that sects have nothing to do with it. "Does the Christ exist divided? Paul was not impaled for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I am thankful I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name."—1 Cor. 1:13-15, NW.

  The day the WTS decided to make the baptism a membership ritual into the WTS, it became recruitment for the WTS, thus going beyond what was written and blaspheming Jehovah's clear arrangement.

  It's not like anyone is holding a gun to someone's head and saying ... 'you'd better join'. We aren't talking about baboons or morons. Everyone has the freedom to choose to accept or reject the message.

  The message.... which message? The gospel of Christ as found in the Bible, or the rearview mirror revisions of Rutherford, and later Franz.. and still subject to further 'interpretation' by future GB members?........ Think about this before responding....What happened in 1918-1919, what we proclaim happened, why and when did the WTS announce all of this in it's publications.....What was so important about "The Finished Mystery"............. (BTW I have known parents who told their daughter to "get baptized or get kicked out to their 17 year old.... a year later the ultimatium was get married to a parent & elder approved selected JW or get out)......yes it all turned out very bad..no gun but just as effective.

  If you read all BonaFide's posts you will see he has not suffered shunning.

  Yes, technically he is not DFd, DAd, or publically reproofed....... but he is being treated as "marked" ....and yes when you are 'marked' you are shunned by most of the congregation as being a bad association, following the BOE's lead.

  TO ALL THE BOARD...

  As far as the rest......as a person that has had former foreign MTS assigned to my congregation as SPs......many of the men are quite immature in their social skills. Youth was given to the organization, most of them have limited female interaction, are used to following a set of guidelines, rarely thinking for themselves...... everything was about furthering the preaching work...... JW first, JW position, and then a person.

  So it is not so far fetched, from my personal experience...... kinda like my old Phlebotomy Instructor....he spent 25+ years in the military (signed up in HS), and was constantly shocked by civilians failing to act on his immediate orders. The lack of regiment in civilian society, having to make broad personal decisions for himself. He too is socially awkward ....similar to BFs stressing out posts and with the opposite sex.......
• 

  Finally-Free

  Each person has to go through all the questions in the Organized book before baptism and this subject is well covered there. So no one becomes a Witness without full knowledge ... and you know it.

  BS. I had no knowledge of the elders manual, the information contained in it, or how it could affect my rights. I never heard of it or saw it until I was out of that worthless cult.

  A liar like you has no business pointing fingers at others saying they're not what they claim to be.

  You disgust me.

  W