When Debating With Witnesses- Is Arguing Doctrine Beneficial ? Steve Hassan (page 4)

BabaYaga

This is a great point and I'm glad you brought it up, Mister Flipper. Mister Hassan is the bomb! Thanks so much for your input, too, Randy... I'll take all the tips and tricks I can get!

Still hopeful,
Baba.

dawg

Graham, that stuff works too, I saw fear in the eyes of my cousin who's a JW at the hospital...she knew she'd better not shun me there.

Just walk up to them and talk, when they shun you say "I want all non-jws to see how JWs behave towards their own family"... call them out.

Make sure to have something to say after they shun you, like "even at a funeral they try and make me feel bad, I don;t feel bad because i no longer follow an organization of men"...or something to that effect

flipper

LAVENDAR- Thanks for the Birthday wishes ! I agree the witnesses twist the scriptures to fit their beliefs . I feel you just need to be authentic and real with your loved ones. Show them you are doing well outside the cult. And avoid negativity with them. If they bring something up answer it in a non-confrontational way. Ask leading questions which make them think, perhaps on things brought out in news releases , inform them but in a nice way, don't argue.

RENIAA- Actually in their own way - the Jehovah's Witnesses are a " closed community cult. " Even though they don't live together in a " commune " they are extremely protective and paranoid of anyone coming in from the outside world and shaking their apple cart and peace in the congregation. Why do you think elders want to communicate with other elders from other congregations when a member moves from one kingdom hall to another ? It's called " control" !

The Watchtower societies leaders are covering over child abuse and not allowing certain ones to be prosecuted by law authorities. Can you excuse the governing body doing this because they are " imperfect " ? I think not. And yes, we can guarantee you will have a " better life " outside the Jehovah's Witnesses cult because you will be able to get a complete education by going to college or a university of your choice, thus being able to land a better career , paying more. You won't have that opportunity in the witnesses.

So, like you said Reniaa- Perhaps you are a Jehovah's Witness who is still in your words a " brainwashed Zombie. " It's time to get out sis and see the real " new light " !

GRAHAM G- That was a good way to help your witness family see that the doctors were able to help them because of higher education . It sounds like you've tried to get thoughts across to your relatives in the 3 years you've been out ! Good job. Keep it up. It is true that it's our families shunning us, it's wrong and they are mind controlled. We need to stand up to them in an effective way.

DAWG- I agree that being direct has it's good points as well. I have been very direct with my witness family , but I do it in a way they will listen. I will not allow my family to shun me either, but I'm going to be careful I don't chase away my daughters in the methods I use either ! Steve Hassan has helped thousands of people get out of mind control cults - so although you may challenge his methods, they do work. There is not just one way to get things done. There are various ways to accomplish getting these people out from under cult mind control ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

flipper

BABA YAGA- Yeah, we are all in the same boat trying to get our relatives free from mind control. So lots of opinions are great ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

dawg

I hear you flipper, I started with the methods you;re discussing, but eventually I realized that nothing was working... I grew tired of hearing their crap, and taking crap off the family... I did this after 18 years.

At some point you realize that things aren't going to get better, and then you have to go ahead and drop the a-bomb.

Eyes Open

Thanks for the reminder Mr. Flipper.

still_in74

Hassan states, " It is also important to understand that in most Bible -based cults, although the member is aggressively taught doctrine, it is not the doctrine that holds him in the group

can you imagine if it were doctrine that kept them in? The org would have fallen a century ago! Just think, at the turn of a page in a WT magazine a JW will discard most all of the theology they have been "believing" and teaching possibly their entire lives.

At the turn of a page! Ask yourself: Did they really believe it?NO!The reality is they probably didnt even understand it. I know this was true for me and my family and for most JW's I know, even pioneers! The Society validates this statement everytime they suggest going back to a householder after "researching" an answer to their question. "Let me come back another time and I'll tell you what I believe about that point after I learn what I believe about that piont"

How can you say you believe something if you dont understand it? Because they believe the group (WTS) is from God. They are trapped mentally by the societal structure of the org. They just keep going to the meetings and out in service and get patted on the back and told that God loves them. They have his "smile of approval". It becomes a drug to them. They need "approval". As long as they accept whatever the org tells them then God loves them and they are happy. Without that drug they are miserable - just like an addict in withdrawal.

Thus when one leaves the Org they are often unhappy and miserable if they are still mentally conditioned by the Org. They need someone to tell them God loves them. They are too untrusting of "Christendom" so they get no appoval from them. Their friends and family all tell them God is going to kill them. No approval from them. THEY NEED THEIR FIX!

A cult is a cult is a cult.

Finally-Free

I tried debating doctrine with my ex to no avail. It drove her further in. Then I decided that, for once in my life, I would put my own interests first. The cult had influenced 28 years of my life and it had to end, whatever the cost. I was determined to leave that shithole cult, and anyone who chose to remain in it was free to do so. It was no longer my problem. I had a life to move on with.

W

XJW4EVR

I absolutely agree with Hassan. When dealing with any psuedo-Christian cult the most important factor is dealing with the authority of the leadership. Untill that issue is dealt with, you will just be plaing Biblical ping pong, and not accomplishing anything.

flipper

DAWG- I totally hear where you are coming from my brother ! I've only been out of the witnesses 5 years, but if I had been fighting it for 18 years with my family like you have had to do ; I'd be dropping an A-bomb as well by that time ! So I understand what you are saying - sometimes if things don't get better you have to take more aggressive measures. I totally agree.

EYES OPEN- Glad you liked the information.

STILL_IN 74- You make really good points ! The witnesses will change their beliefs at the turn of a page with " new light " ! They are duped into believing they are , " God's only chosen people " - so therefore it's not important to them to understand everything they are taught - they just have to be obedient to the alleged " faithful and discreet slave " and be approved. It's all that matters to them. It could be some obscure belief not based on truth, but if the governing body approves it, then they feel indebted to approve it as well. Weirdo's.

FINALLY FREE- I'm glad you got out of the cult. They did rob us of free will and freedom of choice and it gets to the point for many of us, myself included, that I just wasn't going to take it anymore ! I also had to move on.

XJW$EVR- Very true. We have to deal with the authority of the leadership and show that they are not infallible

When Debating With Witnesses- Is Arguing Doctrine Beneficial ? Steve Hassan

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