My brain worked yesterday at the WT study

by BonaFide 38 Replies latest jw friends

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  mouthy

  You know Mary I remember that. About Diane...It was somthing that really made me love that little lass.Thanks for the reminder.
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  hamsterbait

  One point that did not come out was that the genocidal sociopath in the sky (the Stone age death god of the Witchtower) COMMANDED people to avoid lepers because they were not only diseased but not "holy".

  HB
• 

  AGuest

  Jesus didn't have to worry about that because he wouldn't be adversely affected.

  I'm sorry, but this is an error, dear BonaFide... and may you have peace!

  My Lord was absolutely affected when he touched a leper. In fact, he took on the individual's leprosy so that it left them and went into him. Just as he took on the illness causing the woman's 12-year flow of blood. As he took on the illness of those he resurrected from the dead. That is why he "felt power go out of him" - it went into those he healed and thus, left his body. He TOOK ON their sins. And he did it, NOT because he thought he would not be affected but... for it was that he knew he WOULD be... but even so, he felt PITY for them. So much so that HE took THEIR sins... into HIS body.

  That is the "privilege" of the gift of healing and why so few have it: it requires that the individual have SO much love... and pity... for the one afflicted... that they are willing to take on that one's illness. Into their own body. And they have enough faith to believe that when they ask God, through Christ, to grant them such a gift, they will be able to perform the miracle it provides... without worrying about or being fearful of what will happen to their own flesh.

  But you don't have to take my word for it. If you need to see it in writing, I direct you to the scriptures and verses that explain why:

  1. On the night they came to arrest my Lord the people fell away in horror when Judas identified him: he appeared before them as a leper, which none of them, in their own self-righteousness, wanted to touch. John 18:6; Isaiah 52:11

  2. My Lord said to the Pharisees: "No doubt you will apply this illustration to me, 'Physician, cure yourself..." Luke 4:23 The following statement regarding Capernaum misleads one to think he was speaking of the region. he was, however, speaking of himself... that he was sick and they thought, 'Well, if you're such a healer, why don't you heal yourself and do it right here where you live? Why go off and heal others and do it in foreign cities? Start with yourself and start at home."

  3. Isaiah prophesied:

  "To the extent that many have stared at him in astonishment - so MUCH was the disfigurement as respects his appearance, more than that of ANY other man and as respects his stately form more than the sons of mankind - He was despised and AVOIDED by men, a man MEANT for pains AND HAVING ACQUAINTANCE WITH SICKNESS. And there was as if the CONCEALING of one's face from us. He was despised and WE held him as of no account. Truly, OUR SICKNESSES were what HE HIMSELF CARRIED; and as for OUR pains, HE BORE them. But we ourselves accounted him as PLAGUED... STRICKEN by God... AFFLICTED." Isaiah 52:11-53:4

  These are not conditions brought on by mere lashing, dear one - in that case, he would have only had his flesh torn. But he was "acquainted with sickness"... which sicknesses were not his... for he had no sin IN HIM (i.e., his SPIRIT, the man he was on the INSIDE... was perfect!)... but were that of others, those he healed. He healed them by TAKING their sicknesses into his flesh. As a result, he carried in HIS body every sort of infirmity... which infirminities disfigured him... "more than any other man." Not just lameness, not just leprosy, not just epilepsy, not just flow of blood... but whatever other illness caused the deaths of those he resurrected. ALL of this... he took into his body. And like Azazel... he was the Lamb of God...that carried away the sins of the world... by carrying them away for these people. John 1:29; Leviticus 16:8-10. And he took all of these with him to the grave.

  The WTBTS and many others teach that my Lord had perfect flesh. This is a lie. Like Adham, he had a perfect SPIRIT - he inherited that spirit from His Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, a SPIRIT. Also like Adham, he inherited his flesh from an earthly woman, Mary, whose imperfect flesh had sin and death in it (Adham received his flesh from the earth, too). Thus, God sent him "in the likeness of sinFUL flesh (flesh full of sin)... versus sinLESS flesh (flesh without sin). Romans 8:3

  Thus, he could and did die. SinLESS flesh... flesh without sin in it... cannot die. Flesh with sin in it, sinFUL flesh... must die... must be "sown" in the earth... "sown a physical body"... in order to be "raised up" a SPIRITUL body. 1 Corinthians 15:42-44

  I hope this helps clarify and, again, I bid you peace!

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  OUTLAW

  Good Afternoon Shelby!!..Nice to see you on the board again Girl!!..You always have an interesting view point..You know I enjoy that..LOL!!.............If Jesus were perfect how could something like leprosy affect him?..Or..If he Resurrected someone..How could he take on their death with out dieing?......................OUTLAW
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  stillajwexelder

  great comment bonafide
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  wozadummy

  I disagree with you Aguest ,it seems to me that the way the language is transmitted it is spoken figuratively as if Jesus literally took the sickness of people into his body. As for the feeling of something leaving him this would ,to me, mean he could feel the strength of the holy spirit being used to heal someone EXTERNALLY. It makes no sense that Jesus literally takes on the disease or death of someone for even a perfect body surely would not be designed to do that ,like ADAM and EVE who also had perfect bodies. What this type of language conveys to me is that Jesus took upon himself the responsibilty of the healing of illness of others to demonstrate to all what he would do in a fuller way in the future. For how does one take on the death of someone and still be unaffected and now multiply that by billions being ressurected .
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  cameo-d

  I think that the WT is saying though that many people of that time were hateful towards lepers, whereas reality was that they didnt want to contract the disease, right or wrong, that was why they avoided lepers.

  Could it be that they rejected the leper because they thought he was cursed by god?

  Healers were once burned at the stake for helping people like that. The Church decreed that if someone had an illness it was because they had been cursed by god. And for anyone to try to cure them or allieviate their pain, they were in acting direct opposition of god's judgement to do so. It was gods punishment on that person and therefore the church decreed that they should suffer it. No interferrence!

  So, could it be that there was some similar train of thought at that time as well?
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  mustang

  I saw a documentary about leprosy on NatGeo and I was surprised to find that families were living together, with some family members not ever contracting the disease. The docs could see them and touch them and not get it.

  I read this 30 years ago in the medical manuals; in fact, doctors have had trouble doing leprosy research because it doesn't behave as expected. They have trouble culturing it and reproducing experiments using leprosy. Thus, development of treatments have lagged behind other supposedly comparable diseases.

  The level of its contagion is greatly exaggerated. Of all the ancient diseases, it is paradoxically the most difficult to deal with, but is relatively low in danger to others.

  However, to counteract this knowledge of the actuality of Hansen's disease is the possibility that the leprosy of the Bible was a group of common diseaess similar in symptoms, but varying in contagion. That question remains unanswered and practically unaddressed.

  Mustang
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  AGuest

  Hello, my dear OUTLAW... and the GREATEST of love and peace to you!
  
  

  If Jesus were perfect how could something like leprosy affect him?

  The error is in thinking that he was perfect… in the flesh. He was not. NOWHERE is it written that he was. That is a lie that we, earthling man, like to put our faith in... along with the lie that he... and other spirit beings... look like us (man in Adam's image, after he sinned). True, they put on flesh to manifest themselves in this world, but they put it off in that one. Moving on, though...

  Perfect flesh does not get sick… and it certainly doesn’t die. That's because it does not have sin… and therefore does not have death… IN it. It is sinFUL flesh... flesh WITH sin in it... that dies… or can be put to death. My Lord was sent… in the manner of sinFUL flesh… so that he COULD die... COULD be put to death. HE did not sin, however, meaning HE did nothing deceitful, hateful or out of guile. HE was perfect; his FLESH, however, because it held sin (of others) in it… was not. Thus, it was “of no use at all.” John 6:63
  
  This is one of the many ways the WTBTS misleads, however: it keeps preaching a message that compels people to want to “live forever”… in the flesh such as it is now. That's because we are slaves of our flesh. It holds dominion over us. We more often give in to ITS will... than to the will of the man we are on the inside, the spirit. They even preach a resurrection of that flesh. This is a grave error, however, because the flesh that we have now… with its blood… is FULL of sin and death. FULL of corruption. It is a “soiled outer garment.” And Christ, too, had such "outer garment," flesh with sin in it. Zechariah 3:3, 4

  It is the WHITE ROBE, however, the CLEAN "outer garment"… flesh with holy spirit as its blood… and thus WITHOUT sin and death in it… that we are supposed to be hoping for.

  ..Or..If he Resurrected someone..How could he take on their death with out dieing?...................

  You mean, not dying right away? Adham didn't die right away, either. Why? Because he had some holy spirit still in him. That's why God blocked entry to the garden, and thus the Tree of Life, so that Adham couldn't get back to it and eat... and live forever (i.e., not die). The same is true of my Lord: he could take on the sins of others and not immediately die... by means of holy spirit. By means of the SPIRIT that was in him, God's life force, he was able to withstand the ravages that healing brought upon his flesh. But not forever. Holy spirit kept him alive… barely… until it was time to put that body to death. He HAD to undergo such sicknesses… be tested in EVERY respect… in order to prove that even under such circumstances he would NOT sin. Much like Job, only greater. He also had to die, but not before it was time.

  I disagree with you Aguest

  As you are quite free to do, dear Cameo-d (the greatest of peace to you, too!). I have not shared with you anything that is mine, however; rather, I’ve shared what I received from the Spirit. Thus, for those lacking faith, I also included the scriptures and verses to support what I shared.

  It seems to me that the way the language is transmitted it is spoken figuratively as if Jesus literally took the sickness of people into his body.

  What you say here is contradictory: spoken figuratively… as if literally. The truth is that it is spoken literally… because it was literal.

  As for the feeling of something leaving him this would, to me, mean he could feel the strength of the holy spirit being used to heal someone EXTERNALLY.

  As he did, because the strength TO heal/resurrect… came OUT of him. HE is the means by which such healing takes place. Thus:
  
  “Immediately, also, JahEshua recognized in himself that power had gone out of him…”Mark 5:30 Nowhere does it say such power came back.

  It makes no sense that Jesus literally takes on the disease or death of someone for even a perfect body surely would not be designed to do that

  No body was designed to do that, perfect or imperfect. But you entirely missing the point: he didn't do it because his body was designed to do it. His body was NOT designed so, and so he SUFFERED as a result. Which is the POINT: that although his body WASN’T designed to do it, his PITY for those suffering… compelled him to do it. Even if it meant pain and suffering to HIM. HE would rather suffer FOR them… than to allow them to continue suffering. This might be hard to understand because you have not been taught what is true about Christ… and thus, about God. You have been taught that, rather than taking and removing people’s sins… and thus their suffering… they very often cause it, in the way of punishment and retribution. This is a LIE: God, and thus Christ… is LIFE… not death. They grant LIFE… not death. Death, “the last enemy”… is another entity altogether.

  like ADAM and EVE who also had perfect bodies.

  Thus, neither Adam nor Eve died… while their bodies were perfect. But they did not end UP with perfect bodies, did they? Rather, they were given “long garments of skin”… which garments had sin and death in them. Soiled garments/robes. Right? That is why Christ HAD to come through a woman (Mary, whose body had those same attributes… sin and death IN it… which body he inherited from her) - so that he could be like US… we who are made in ADAM’S… AFTER he sinned… and not God’s image (which Adham had BEFORE he sinned). He was tested IN ALL RESPECTS... like us. Even our illnesses.
  
  Thus, where Adam went fromperfect flesh (i.e., without sin and death in it) toimperfect flesh (i.e., with sin in it)… because of the sin that was IN HIM… (i.e., in his SPIRIT)… Christ went from imperfect flesh (i.e., flesh with sin and death in it)…to perfect flesh (i.e., without sin in it)… because of the LACK of sin in HIM. He bought back what Adham lost… but he had to start out at the point where Adham was and work back from that.

  What this type of language conveys to me is that Jesus took upon himself the responsibility of the healing of illness of others to demonstrate to all what he would do in a fuller way in the future.

  You are exactly correct. And he did it… in the FLESH... because he WANTED to… because he LOVED them… even to give his LIFE for them… even to taking their sins… and thus their sicknesses into his flesh. And then he carried them away. He will do it again, on a much larger scale, but this time by means of SPIRIT.

  For how does one take on the death of someone and still be unaffected?

  If one’s flesh is perfect, one is NOT affected. My Lord WAS affected, however: he flesh became "disfigured" and he was considered afflicted by God. Isaiah 52:14; 53:3, 4. He was not given a CLEAN body, one without sin in it... until his resurrection, when he was given a "clean outer garment"... a "white robe." A spirit body. Zechariah 3:1-9

  and now multiply that by billions being resurrected.

  I assume you are referring the WTBTS’ version of who is to be resurrected, to what… and when… which is yet another lie. Those who partake of the first resurrection are given spirit bodies… "white robes"... clean "outer garments"… right away. This has not occurred yet, for it doesn't until my Lord returns. 1 Corinthians 15:50-54; Thesslonians 4:15-17 And it is more than than 1,000 years after that that those who take part in the second resurrection are either resurrected to life (and, thus, also given such “white robes” – spirit bodies)… or resurrected to judgment, which results in destruction in the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:2, 5, 7, 11-15
  
  Those of the first resurrection... and those of the second resurrected who are resurrected to life (as opposed to resurrected to judgment)… already had their sins taken away by my Lord: their sins are BLOTTED OUT… by means of his blood, which he has now given. Thus, the have no condemnation. Romans 8:1.

  Those whom he healed and/or resurrected during his time on the earth, however, did not yet benefit from his sacrifice, for it had not yet been made. Thus, he healed them NOT by cleansing them with holy spirit (which he does for those of the resurrections), but by taking on their sins and carrying them away with him when he died. His death paid for their sins at that time; however, they died again, didn’t they? Thus, NEXT time it will be his death (as a sacrifice) AND his blood (as a cleansing agent).

  I think that the WT is saying though that many people of that time were hateful towards lepers, whereas reality was that they didnt want to contract the disease, right or wrong, that was why they avoided lepers.

  They avoided lepers, dear one (and peace to you!) because the Law mandated that they do so. Leviticus 5:3; 13:3 Thus, in their self-rigtheousness, they believed they were adhering to the Law. But this was their error for while it was true that they weren’t to transgress the Law, they were also to SURPASS it… with LOVE… which would be born out in their MERCY… resulting from their PITY for such ones. There, they failed miserably. Matthew 9:12, 13; 23:23

  Again, I bid you all peace... and ears to hear... particularly that which the Spirit and the Bride KEEP saying:

  "Come! Take life's "water"... the living water that flows from the inmost parts of God's "cistern"... His Son and Christ, my Lord JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, which "water" is holy spirit... FREE!"

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
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  AGuest

  I misaddressed you in my response. I should have greeted Wozadummy. My apologies and peace to you!

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA