Stilla..It`s called: "Stuck on Stupid!!..
...OUTLAW
Defence of watchtower society Links
by reniaa 343 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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OUTLAW
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mustang
Dates.....half a dozen peeps quoting wt from early last century quoting dates right back to the times when even the wt still had a cross and birthdays.....I made the point higher up that dates don't mean a massive issue to me and certainly in those early days they wanted to predict specific times but as I said it does show as a leftover from their adventist roots.
My "dates" reply was in response to
they have never actually given a date for Armageddon,
I used the 1925 date that Rutherford said was THE END in black and white for years ahead of time.
I'm little concerned with the dates myself, except you mention "were they damaged by this originally" [paraphrased] indicating that they will leave dates behind. I believe the hypocrisy in them doing so, damaging their followers and barely ever admitting the failure is totally damning. Yes, they are damaged thereby.
Consider also the "we're spirit directed", borderline claiming infallibility, making big boner mistakes and then pulling back to "imperfect men", then flip-flopping the cycle over and over again. This "spirit directed", but "light getting brighter", making a liar of God is even more damaging than the first item of dates.
Put these two together and they have lost credibility irrecoverably. They aren't "spirit directed", they are "spirit blocked" from the very top, highest levels and from very early on. They are fatally and terminally "spiritually constipated".
Thank you for replying to my "dates" notes. With the huge volume on this topic, I didn't see that until very long after having left the topic. I may not revisit this interesting but very active topic for reasons of available time.
Mustang
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reniaa
Your welcome mustang, I missed a few myself :) on dates I just think it was a failing most faiths fell into at one time or other but time covers most of them, it's the constant quandary of preparing people for armageddon without going that step to far into dates. I make allowances for it but many choose not to its a personal thing,
Reniaa
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leavingwt
a failing most faiths fell into
Most faiths? Not so much.
Apocalyptic and Millenarian movements are obsessed with dates. So far, all of the dates have been wrong.
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gymbob
Reniaa~
It seems every time you try to explain away WT mistakes you are comparing the mistakes they make to the mistakes of other religions.
Like, oh they were wrong...but look what these other religions did too!
Why can't you just accept the the fact that the WT society isn't what it claims to be? Gymbob
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isaacaustin
Your welcome mustang, I missed a few myself :) on dates I just think it was a failing most faiths fell into at one time or other but time covers most of them, it's the constant quandary of preparing people for armageddon without going that step to far into dates. I make allowances for it but many choose not to its a personal thing,
Reniaa
Right...that would be gnat...all other do it. The WT is no different. As far as the biggies...that is what counts, right Reniaa? That is what separates the WT from all others.
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mustang
Most faiths? Not so much.
Apocalyptic and Millenarian movements are obsessed with dates. So far, all of the dates have been wrong.
A good distinction, LWT. And what it gets into is what the philosophers that became scientists used to call "taxonomy" or classification (usually of plants or animals).
So, we have species of religions, including some of date oriented versus those that don't care.
And that's where my interest here is: studying the variations of religions and the history of theology itself.
I'm not interested in being a minister or preacher: if I was, I'd do the seminary route, get a pulpit and preach hellfire to fuel the collection plates.
I'll study and pore over literature till the cows come home, but no mincing words here: I preach, you pay me.
Growing up, I had no choice but to do what my parents told me. The studying was interesting, to a point. The meetings and service, I did for my father.
I got fed up, quit, my father chased/stalked me 30 years to drag me back to the KH. He's gone, JW's are history.
And that's where I'll see them from now on: history and books.
I'll look across other religions, but frankly, having a personal relation with God is the max; and I can do that just as well as any JW FDS, RCC priest or other/TBD. I might as well make my own religion.
As JT used to post "I would rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question". JT 1:1
Mustang
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mustang
And to reniaa:
Again, you ask did the dates damage WTS and you allude to the JW's "evolving" away from dates.
Again, I say yes, they did damage them: if you use dates, YOU HAD BETTER BE RIGHT. It's a sword that cuts both ways.
But if JW's are evolving to a mainstream religion, what is the point of putting up with them? Unique doctrines, perhaps? This has been gone over here since day 1 of JWD (sometime in '01, I think). The predecessor sites covered it in spades, as well.
The Bible Students are still around; I haven't seen RR post lately, but I think he is still available for comment.
The Christadelphians are real close to JW's except for the door-door. I noticed somebody post here the other day that said they were brought up as a Christadelphian.
Barry of Australia is the resident SDA (Seventh Day Adventist). He has some interesting perspectives.
RCC's, Baptists, fundies, atheists, vegetarians, republicans, democrats can all be found here. So I could call this my church of the moment (till the doors shut).
What is left is the door-door ministrations.
I have my doubts as to the doing of the ministries as JW's do is what the bible asks for. And I am through with the "No Clergy/Laity Distinction" doctrine of JW's. I believe they have proved that experiment is a miserable failure.
I have twice told two different JW zealots that were trying to drag me back to the KH that I might attend meetings, but I WOULD NEVER GO DOOR-DOOR AGAIN. Their stunned reactions were priceless. You know that's all they were working up to, feigned concern over my salvation, to the contrary. They want company in the door-door misery.
Having dispensed w/ the FS, let the JW's evolve mainstream. (JW's evolving: how ironic .) That's all the more reason that I should go elsewhere.
Mustang
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Guest with Questions
Renaia: You seem to contradict yourself.
we don't want to be caught without oil in our lamps! how many other christian faiths are preparing their people? have they given up and letting people sink into bible condemned ways?
on dates I just think it was a failing most faiths fell into at one time or other but time covers most of them, it's the constant quandary of preparing people for armageddon without going that step to far into dates
On the one hand you say that many other christian faiths are not preparing their people by talking about Armegeddon, I assume, then on the other hand you say that most faiths fell into prophesying at one time or another. Am I confused or are you contradicting yourself? Please explain? Most likely another question ignored.
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wobble
Reniaa,
Is the WTBS directed by Holy Spirit or not?
love
Wobble