Defence of watchtower society Links (page 15)

reniaa

Isaac and mary I already gave you both a list of what I considered biggies.

Christianity was the major religion of all sides of the first world war and the second one too what if they had stepped in and told their people not to kill each other?

would their followers have ignored the command? probably and what does that say about christianity? Jws have stepped in and said no the bible says love your enemy and this isn't just about being nice and and inviting people to dinner, it's about not killing others, hitler was terrible and evil but he was also a christian at no point did his religious leaders tell him not to kill people this is their blood guilt. At this same time german Jws were taking stands in prisons in german concentration camps refusing to be killers for his greed, have you joined a church that let it's people kill in those wars probably on both sides?

For me the JWs still stand out far and away beyond other faiths that are losing there identity in public opinion they may not have strict leaders like Jws constantly applying bible principle to everything but they do have leaders even if they are only there say yes to many things the bible condemns and they used to be strong on but public opinion has made them bend to man's will. Forgive me if however nice those religions they do not appeal to me. We can make our own faith from looking at the bible but then we are only making a leader of ourselves with a congregation of one.

Name me one religion without leadership? and this is for you too wobble

You condemn Jws leaders for being strict but in my book leaders that sit back and do nothing are just as bad! why were Jws the only faith to ban smoking in there people so early on? many condemn Jws for making it a disfellowshipping offense but then since it's the second biggest killer on this planet contributing to cancer, stillbirths, bronchitus, and many other illnesses, how many are alive because they were made to give up smoking? how many years ago was it?

hi passwordprotected

I do not condemn rapture( i didn't really know enough on it my ex often mentions it) I just was using it as an example of an extra-biblical word used by other faiths, Jws have a couple but not many 'Paradise earth' is simply to define that they don't adhere to paradise in heaven which is the major christian teaching, governing body is the same as synod, CO, DO - archbishop, bishop.

Like I said you have to decide what you want from your religion but my point still stands, how can people take a moral stand against Jws on certain points that they will then go on accept quite easily in their new faith?

Is this more about words than actual commitment to bible teachings?

I mean those that have become christians after leaving Jws, I accept you now believe Jesus is God but do you also believe in Hellfire and burning in hell? officially the new pope has made it fiery furnace again. Do you believe your soul is separate?

isaacaustin

Isaac and mary I already gave you both a list of what I considered biggies.

Jesus did not seem to agree with your list Reniaa. He said "love among yourselves" was the determining factor. This is definitely not present amon the WT folowers- among the members or from the members to the outsiders. So by Jesus words they have disqualified themselves.

Christianity was the major religion of all sides of the first world war and the second one too what if they had stepped in and told their people not to kill each other? would their followers have ignored the command? probably and what does that say about christianity?

Again, it is to the individual Christian to weigh his or her involvement. John the Baptist- Jesus forerunner, made pretty clear that a solier in war is certainly not something that would disqualify one from being right with God. He told the soldier to be content with their wages- meaning they were ok to continue in that profession. Just so you know, the WT actually encouraged its member to finance WW! by buying war-bonds. So you can say the JWs didn't fight in WWI, they made it possible by financing it.

Jws have stepped in and said no the bible says love your enemy and this isn't just about being nice and and inviting people to dinner, it's about not killing others, hitler was terrible and evil but he was also a christian at no point did his religious leaders tell him not to kill people this is their blood guilt.

I guess you haven't read the 1945 yearbook as to the WT official stance. The JW member stance is simply acts of loyalty to the WT.

At this same time german Jws were taking stands in prisons in german concentration camps refusing to be killers for his greed, have you joined a church that let it's people kill in those wars probably on both sides?

Again- individual conscience. It takes a WT interpretation and explanation to support your above statements.

For me the JWs still stand out far and away beyond other faiths that are losing there identity in public opinion

Far and away beyond other faiths in what? Eccentric beleifs? Pesty Sat morning knocking on doors?

they may not have strict leaders like Jws constantly applying bible principle to everything but they do have leaders even if they are only there say yes to many things the bible condemns and they used to be strong on but public opinion has made them bend to man's will. Forgive me if however nice those religions they do not appeal to me. We can make our own faith from looking at the bible but then we are only making a leader of ourselves with a congregation of one.

Name me one religion without leadership? and this is for you too wobble

The question is not of leadership but WHAT TYPE OF LEADERSHIP. The WT clearly in their leadership goes beyond the things written and have become masters over their members' faith.

isaacaustin

mean those that have become christians after leaving Jws, I accept you now believe Jesus is God but

do you also believe in Hellfire and burning in hell?

Yes i do

officially the new pope has made it fiery furnace again.

Do you believe your soul is separate

yes I do

I also see what you are doing here. You are uncomfortable where the thread is heading toward pinning the WT into a corner so you are diverting the attention to the laundry list the WT tells you makes htem the true religion...and where you feel more comfortable talking on. The history of the org is generally a very uncomfortable topic for JWs, eh Reniaa?

passwordprotected

I loved the recent public WT magazine article on hell where it quotes Jesus talking about hell and then states, "Jesus did not intend to contradict God's word." Er, Jesus is the Word of God. Pretty much what he says counts.

But then JWs don't see it that way. I had an elder ask me to "forget what Jesus said" in Acts 1:7.

isaacaustin

wow. Did he actually sya it in those words? Foerget what Jesus said?? Wow.

truthseeker

Renaii,

I do not see the cross as an idol. For one thing, in it's most basis form, it is a nothing more than a piece of wood.

It's not the same as the Israelites worshipping Molech or Baal or whatever.

The cross is a SYMBOL of Christ's death. It has MEANING. Like wearing a wedding band indicates that you're married.

Do we need the cross? No. I do not consider it a "graven image" - Jesus' death symbolized so much and since he has gone and can no longer be visibly seen, people want to feel that they have something to remind them of Christ's death.

I do not buy the WT argument that would you want to wear the symbol of Christ's execution around your neck - that is a non-argument.

passwordprotected

@isaacaustin - ok, to be fair, he said it nicely.

Eyes Open

reniaa: but then if we condemn all faiths for anticipating dates then we wouldn't even follow the bible because even in thessalonians they anticipated jesus. Like I've said in the past I'll forgive a religion for making obviously human mistakes but there is a point of no returnI idolatry, false worship to a God that is not JHWH, supporting fornication/adolatry in their congregation, encouraging members to kill each other in conflict so murder etc you know the bigger issues!

It sounds like you're so stuck in believing what you've been told to believe. JW's have to downplay the significance of having twisted scripture to inject fear of Armageddon into people, even though Jesus himself said not to believe those who falsely said 'there he is'. Can't you see you're deliberately ignoring Jesus Christ? It really is that simple. Whether or not you're willing to forgive a religion over a major doctrinal error (to put it extremely politely) has nothing to do with what the bible says.

And if you don't like other religions that do the other things you mention, then don't join them either.

reniaa: Now if someone tells me that they left JW's because of one of these nitpicky issues more to do with human error which itself is recorded in the bible and then they go on to join a faith/religion or lack of faith(Atheism, agnostism etc) that advocates the above major wrongdoings how can I respect them?

Again, you're downplaying what Jesus warned against, but your question is irrelevant. You don't have to respect anyone who left Jehovah's Witnesses. This isn't a give-me-respect competition.

Take some steps back - that's my advice. Go back to scriptural basics. William Miller's interpretation is fundamentally flawed, and hence so is the WTS interpretation.

isaacaustin

hmm, ok. So he nicely told you to take away from God's word...as opposed to telling you forcefully. Hmm, Revelation did not seem to mention that the tone in which it is done would mitigate the circumstance.

VM44

From the page "defending" the year 607BCE.

http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/

2. Promoters of 587 redefine the 70-year desolation to mean something figurative, such as servitude for seventy years

Jeremiah 25:11, 12 says (NWT):

And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years. And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation.

"these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years" sounds very literal to me, very specify and not figurative at all.

Defence of watchtower society Links

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