Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa 343 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  SnakesInTheTower

  ....

  I served at Bethel, and I now know that I was not serving God, but the interests of a publishing corporation masquerading as a Christian congregation. You don’t have to be sad. People like us are now in a unique position to help others gain their freedom .

  Well said, Jeremy... as a former bethelite and missionary I saw the HQ up close... and I began to see the charade...

  Helping people is now one of the main reason I am on these sites...

  though I did not have the missionary experiences of Bonafide or Awakened or the FT Bethel experience of Jeremy.... I am (sadly) a graduate of MTS (Ministerial Training School)... a part of Gilead... and I served 7 weeks total as a temp at Bethel... Brooklyn and Walkill. I served 5 years as an elder. And a few more as a pioneer. I am not proud of the resume, trust me. My "theocraptic" CV does give me some standing to comment on this cult. I have seen behind the curtain of the Wizard of Oz Watchtower Society and it is ugly. The petty jealousies I observed during my 8 weeks of MTS.... the foul-mouthed language of both temp workers (one who often dropped the F-bomb), and regular Bethelites (some of who took every opportunity to dump extra work on us temps.... thus the phrase "save a bethelite, kill a temp".....)...... the assembly overseers that were self-righteous blowhards behind closed doors and spoke so unkindly about average R&F people behind their backs......the foul-mouthed elders I served with in a couple of congregations.... the racists attitudes of white elders toward black elders in one congo and the decades long effort to keep one particular one on the BOE..... even my own difficulty keeping my temper in elder's meetings toward one particular jackass elder in the last congo I served as an elder.... ....all of this shows me that The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and its elitist 9 member Governing Body (some of whom I met personally and know to be idiots) are no more special...and certainly NOT inspired by God/Holy Spirit/FSM or anything else....no more special..... than the rest of the world at large. One other thing I have observed is that there is a higher concentration of depressed, mentally ill, socially retarded, marginalized human beings in the congregations than other (non religious) groups I have associated with since leaving...and a higher concentration than many religions.... bad enough if you were raised in it as I was...truly sad if you came into it as an adult on your own. I hope the original poster somehow either gets clear of the JW religion (preferable) or goes back whole heartedly.....right now... you are in no-man's land... you wont be supported in either group if you keep posting here the way you do....no support here because this is not a site you will win pro-JW arguments...and if you are caught by the elders in JWland being on a primary "apostate" site....... you will be DF'd....... make up your mind...... hang around here if you like...this can be a place of healing as you are leaving the JWs.......but JW apologists such as yourself dont tend to last long here.....and I mean that with all sincerity... not as an attack on you as a person. Snakes ()
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  isaacaustin

  Are you saying because I wasn't an elder or in the bethel I wouldn't have any idea how an organisation is run?

  No, you know what the WT tells you. You beleive what they tell you to beleive. That is how cults operate. You are captive to the cult.

  I worked for a very big company and saw first hand what a heirachy based org can do, the cliques, the gossip, the isolation if you feel like you don't fit in, the intense ambition

  That is corporate America.

  but I also read the bible and noticed how the Appostles constantly fought within themselves as to who was the greatest and then in the NT people were boasting in groups on who got to baptise them.

  Agreed...apostles fought....people boasted of who they followed...

  Do you honestly think if you looked behind the curtains of any religion the men would be anything more than just men?

  No. But you can find men who are trying to submit to Jesus and follow the Bible- not have their #1 agenda control and an org. And they do not have to prophecy falsely in the name of God in doing so- as the WT is well known for.

  even moses got punished for his arrogance.

  Agreed

  It saddens me that so many elders and bethel workers are on here. And they have had hardest work to do they truly give all their life to Jehovah.

  It is verry happifiying to see elders & Bethel workers on here. It is nice to see still active ones here as well who are trying to help others out while still working within. They did have the hardest work to do Reniaa- that is true. But they did not give their lives at all to Jehovah. They gave it to the org- a known false prophet.

  Well I may never have reach the upper echelons

  No you won't.

  but I have never seen anything in the people around me in the KH that haven't already seen anywere else

  So, what makes the Wt special? They have prohecied falsely more than all others. They have the same divorce, abuse, molestation percentages as others. They are the only religious group wrong on blood, this has resulted in numerous wrongful deaths.

  and if I have one gripe with this site it is the exageration and constant need to put the worst spin on things happenning within the wts but I guess that comes with the territory.

  reniaa

  Exaggeration and putting the worst spin? The Wt told you that huh? Not so Reniaa. We say things exactly as they happen. The WT has created their own situation, we just report it.
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  AgentSmith

  Reniaa said...... "and if I have one gripe with this site it is the exaggeration and constant need to put the worst spin on things happening within the wts but I guess that comes with the territory."....... isn't that the what its all about? This is Reniaa's territory. She is putting in special pioneer hours by the looks of things!
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  isaacaustin

  Reniaa said...... "and if I have one gripe with this site it is the exaggeration and constant need to put the worst spin on things happening within the wts but I guess that comes with the territory."....... isn't that the what its all about? This is Reniaa's territory. She is putting in special pioneer hours by the looks of things! Yes, let's go with Reniaa's tactics. She will start off with the Trinity, or something similar, that depending on someone's theological perspective they will see one way or the other. She will then put the twist on this and call it an outright lie...and then make all other religions out to be wrong and then admit that possibly the WT has some small issue but all others are majorly wrong. She will do the same on Christmas, the cross or other issues where it requires a WT interpreation to reach that conclusion and denounce all other religions for failing on what she terms as 'biggies' while arguing that the WT has all the 'biggies' right and simply needs tweaking on minor issues. Again, on what authority she proclaims some shortcomings 'biggies' while the ones of the WT are 'gnats' is comepletely without basis.
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  reniaa

  hi jeremy

  I cannot believe you said this.....

  Most Christian organizations do not assert that they are the exclusive channel of communication from God to mankind

  erm...pope cough cough, mormons cough cough, scientology cough Baptist, methodist, Quakers and anyway even if they say all christian faiths lead to God (and only the more modern ones do) they make it a 'Jesus only Club', and the wordage used when people talk on Holy spirit..."I got holy spirit now jesus talks to me so I now know everything' they are saying there sole communication with God is all they have to listen too this is a very born again thing.

  If you consider Jw's a special case thats only because you were in it so long, if you go on the support groups for other faiths people say very similar things on them and the gripes are similar too, in fact I recommend it, I went on an atheist site and they spoke about every religion as those on here only speak on Jw's, talking about mass hynotism so people believe in God. Athough we are becoming a more Atheist world since evolution is taught as fact in schools and colleges and scientists are have great difficulty getting jobs if they profess to have faith in God.

  I think the wt is very very strict and this will stand out more as other faiths cave under the pressure of public opinion, like I said I can see them becoming one of the last few religions that insist on keeping the fornication, adultery etc biblical commandments they are certainly the only one that even does the blood one despite it being one of the few commandments that started right from noah not just the moses law.

  I don't try and defend all it's policies I think there are many things that could be improved and the dec 15 wt I saw on here has put goodworks clearly on the same footing as ministry I hope this means people will help those in need more.

  I only say that when I look at all the faiths this particular one for me follows the bible more accurately than most and I don't have to get my head around a composite God.

  Reniaa

  I'm sorry if I've missed people, this has been another good discussion despite the usual ones that call me troll lol or even worse an ACTIVE Witness, trust me if this Forum is still around when I do become one, I will tell everyone and they can be my conscience for me and tell me that I shouldn't be on these boards something I see some people fall back on alot as an end play '
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  reniaa

  hi deputy dog

  lol thats an oldie, yeah I've heard it before very much part of the folk-tales do I care if they did? No If they did well they've had a lot of refining since then, as long as they don't have secret satanic worship as David iche(self-confessed messiah) thinks in the hidden lower levels of the bethel I think I'll not let that stumble me..
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  isaacaustin

  erm...pope cough cough, mormons cough cough, scientology cough Baptist, methodist, Quakers and anyway even if they say all christian faiths lead to God (and only the more modern ones do) they make it a 'Jesus only Club', and the wordage used when people talk on Holy spirit..."I got holy spirit now jesus talks to me so I now know everything' they are saying there sole communication with God is all they have to listen too this is a very born again thing.

  You have named a few that claim to be God's channel of communication. Baptist can be excluded from you list. I go to a Baptist church and will tell you they in no way claim to be God's sole channel of communication. Whenever one of the pastors gives his interpretation of something not clearly defined he will always qualify it as such. Regarding your quote of "I got holy spirit and I know all.."...that is not the attitude I see among my Christian friends. That is called a generalization, probably a prejudiced one, on your part Reniaa.

  I think the wt is very very strict

  Yes, exactly like the religous leaders and lawyers Jesus denounced quite strongly as Matt 23 and Luke as well. You may want to read this reniaa. I can think of no more a direct fulfillment of those words in the WT today.

  and this will stand out more as other faiths cave under the pressure of public opinion, like I said I can see them becoming one of the last few religions that insist on keeping the fornication, adultery etc biblical commandments they are certainly the only one that even does the blood one despite it being one of the few commandments that started right from noah not just the moses law.

  All other religons do not cave under public opinion as the WT has told you they do. My church does not approve of fornication/adulktery..etc. They speak out on it. We do not practice the unChrisitan shunning of offenders as does the WT. We reach out and encourage others to confess...to come clean to the Lord. Blood- THE WATCHTOWER IS THE ONLY RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION THAT IS WRONG ON THIS. THE ONLY ONE! I had to make that big so perhaps you will see the emplhasis on it. The WT has become killers due to this. The command to Noah was simply not to eat the animals while they were still alive. A simply reading of this without WT blinders will show that.

  I don't try and defend all it's policies I think there are many things that could be improved and the dec 15 wt I saw on here has put goodworks clearly on the same footing as ministry I hope this means people will help those in need more.

  Whether this is to bring about a change or not remains to be seen. I doubt the org is changing towards an emphasis to good works as in charity. We shall see.

  I only say that when I look at all the faiths this particular one for me follows the bible more accurately

  such as thru false prophecying, rules that parallel the religious leaders of Jesus day, i.e. holidays, birthdays, blood, disfellowshipping/shunning, negative connotation on education, association with nonJWs...

  than most and I don't have to get my head around a composite God.

  No, you don't have to. You instead misidentify Jesus. You have the wrong Jesus Reniaa.

  Reniaa
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  cognac

  Anyone sick of this thread yet???
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  reniaa

  hi isaac

  so you just sweepingly says 'thats corporate america' and you do agree with my points but you do not accept as a complex organisation (and involves a lot of corporate aspects) Jws can suffer from the same things?

  I think this is really a question of authority, if people lose their faith in a religion then they no longer think the leaders have the right to lead.

  You also call it a false prophet actually coming from you isaac I accept it, you believe in trinity and Jws are a false prophet to the trinity and always will be, its only fair since Jws have no hesitation in calling christendom a lot worse :S

  Reniaa

  thx for imput I may not reply to all but I do read them.
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  isaacaustin

  hi isaac

  so you just sweepingly says 'thats corporate america' and you do agree with my points but you do not accept as a complex organisation (and involves a lot of corporate aspects) Jws can suffer from the same things?

  JW's suffer from some of the same things as corp America...yes. All churches do in some way or another. However, how are they handled? In the WT it is swept under the rug- such as the recent sex abuse scandal. Was that handled in the same way Jesus would have wanted? WOuld Jesus have hadnled the Malawi situation the way it was handles, while allowing a double standard to exist in Mexico? I think not. He wants mercy, not sacrifice.

  I think this is really a question of authority, if people lose their faith in a religion then they no longer think the leaders have the right to lead.

  You also call it a false prophet actually coming from you isaac I accept it, you believe in trinity and Jws are a false prophet to the trinity and always will be,

  Being a false prophet in God's name Reniaa...it is very well documented what the WT has said and predicted. And being a flase prophet, as you call it, to the Trinity would include their denying Jesus as did the Jews of his own day. What did jesus say about that generation?

  its only fair since Jws have no hesitation in calling christendom a lot worse :S

  Oh I agree. The JWs sure have no problem speaking out against other religions....such as the sex abuse scandal in the Cathloic church while they had their own scandal going on at the same time.

  Reniaa

  thx for imput I may not reply to all but I do read them.