IWish4Truth said:
: In my opinion, it's one thing to not agree with organizations that impose
: certain rules upon it's members,
True.
: but it's quite another to turn one's back on God Himself because of disagreements.
There's a big problem with this statement: you uncritically assume that your
"God" is the God of the Bible and that this God actually exists. Can you prove
it? No, you can't. It's just something that's part of your faith. Plenty of
people who leave the JWs find for the first time that they can examine questions
such as the existence of God without the fetters of preconceived notions
usually acquired in childhood. Once they do, they often conclude that the idea
of "God" is unsupportable, if not outright nonsense. Note that this is not
necessarily based merely on a reaction against JW teaching, but on a careful
study of a great deal of evidence.
Sure, there are plenty of people who just want to do whatever they please, and
they use their leaving of the JWs as an excuse for what some would call "loose
living". But plenty of others begin to use their minds, often for the first
time, and continue living "moral" and, by most everyone's standard, ethical
lives, and blossom into what they should have been all along. They use their
minds to conclude that "God", if it exists at all, is irrelevant in day-to-day
living, because it has no discernable effect.
I know plenty of extremely moral people, for example, who tried to stick with
some sort of Christian faith, and found that nothing that Christians claim
about God actually works. Prayer is useless except as a placebo -- and
a self-administered placebo at that. When great effort results in zero return,
a reasonable person will give up.
: Is there not still some Higher Power out there who has the best interest
: of humans at heart?
I seriously doubt it. The claim that this Power has their long term
interests at heart, and that all the pain and suffering experienced by a great
deal of mankind daily, for thousands of years, is simply part of God's plan,
is nonsense. What kind of father allows his innocent children to suffer
terribly when he can easily prove a point to his critics in other ways? Really,
the whole JW-Fundamentalist notion of God having to prove something to Satan
and the rest of intelligent creation is a fairy-tale made up by people who
couldn't explain 'evil' in the world any other way.
: How can it be denied, especially in these terrible times, that something or
: someone is gonna have to step in and take over and end this havoc.
Ah, the standard "argument from incredulity" appears: "Everything is so bad,
there has to be a solution!" This is mere wishful thinking. That and a
few nickels for God will surely solve the world's problems.
: Surely no human or government can fix the real problems at hand, or can they?
Time will tell. Mankind has only very recently come up with amazing improvements
in all sorts of areas, both technically and in human relations. Experience is a
bitter teacher, to be sure, but it is a sure teacher. For all its problems,
the world of mankind today is in far better shape than it was 300 years ago.
Other posters have given proof of this.
An interesting point is that governments themselves are far more concerned with
"human rights" than they were a few hundred years ago. This is an extremely big
change in historical terms. A couple of thousand years ago the notion that a
government should be concerned with such didn't even exist. For the most part,
individuals existed to serve the government, not the other way around. People
served various religious organizations, not the other way around.
It's pretty easy to prove that overall, the state of mankind is far better
today than ever before: When would you rather live? Today, or in 14th-century
Europe? Why? Is there any time that you can point to that would be better for
most of mankind to live in than today? If so, please tell us, and explain your
reasoning.
: Especially not the WTS or any JW I know.
Irrelevant.
: Have you ever had God's Holy Spirit?
No, and neither has anyone else. Show me a man who claims to have it, and I'll
show you a charlatan or a nutcase.
Here's a great example of both: JWs claim that their elders are "appointed by
holy spirit". That means that most JWs literally believe that "holy spirit"
is involved in the selecting and appointing process -- that it is God and/or
"Holy Spirit" that is directly involved in and, in practice, literally
inspires other JWs in the process of selecting a new elder. Yet in practice,
the Watchtower Society spends a good deal of time instructing elders how to be
very careful in their selection process. They even teach that making an improper
selection could result in serious harm to other JWs, or legal liability for
the Watchtower organization, if the new elder screws up. How's that for
believing two diametrical opposites at the same time? That holy spirit virtually
inspires the appointment of elders, but that this process is prone to errors?
As if God/Holy Spirit is prone to errors! Obviously, the claim that JW elders
are "appointed by holy spirit" is the claim of nutcases, and the deliberate
suppression of the sure knowledge that this claim is false is the work of
mere charlatans.
: If so, who gave it to you??
The tooth fairy. Who gave it to you?
: Certainly not the WTS or any group or person. As an ex-JW, do you feel you
: have that protection?
At various times I prayed hard, in all sincerity, for solutions to problems.
Nothing ever happened. That gradually killed the faith I was taught to have
as a child.
To RR:
: People love to "throw the baby out with the bathwater," and then condemn you
: when you don't.
Some do, some don't. What you're doing here is particularly noisome -- lumping
everyone who doesn't believe as you do into one big unpleasant category of
"those who deny God for their own selfish pleasure." I thought better of you,
Rolando. Now your self-righteousness is showing. Sadly, this almost always
happens with Christians, no matter how decent they appear for awhile.
You're also being quite hypocritical by complaining that some people condemn
you when you don't go along with them, and in the same breath turning around
and doing exactly the same thing.
Now comes the standard refrain of the self-righteous Christian:
: I guess it easier to throw everything out, that way, you don't feel
: responsible to any "higher power" but yourself and then you can focus on
: your own selfish needs as oppose to doing God's will.
Don't judge everyone else by your own inner motives. Some of us remain ethical
and moral because of an inner sense of such, not because we're afraid of getting
killed by some higher power if we don't.
: Personally, I left "Jehovah's Organization" I did not leave Jehovah, and
: serve him unreservedly.
Good for you.
Now get off your self-righteous soap box and show some "Christian qualities".
Very good comments, JT, Larc, Seeker4 and Abaddon!
AlanF
