by flipper 83 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
@flipper
yes we all kow pedophilia is evil and wrong, but the wts says they follow gods laws first over mans. again this explains the wts attitude, too perfection!
the fact is there is no reason the holy spirit would say pedophilia is wrong. at no stage does god say in the bible it is wrong -- NOWHERE--. the holy spirit can only follow gods will as set out in his bible. after all what scripture would the holy spirit show to the gb to point out pedophilia is wrong ?
mP --
Matthew 22:36-39 NWT
36. "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
37. He said to him: "'You must love Johovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.'
38. This is the greatest and first commandment.
39. The second, like it, is this, 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.'
40. On these two commandments, the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets."
According to JC, these two commandments supersede the old Testament laws.
So,,, loving one's neighbor as one's self, would entail not tolerating them being raped, unless you believe that raping children is a loving thing.
t
MP- I feel you are taking things too literally . WT society has MANY policies that they put into effect that ARE NOT SCRIPTURALLY BACKED OR COMMENTED ON. They dissapprove of things that ARE NOT MENTIONED in the Bible , and approve of things that even may be put down in the Bible. It's not black or white, either this or that. There is NO consitency within the Jehovah's Witness organization in how they apply which Bible laws or principles they choose to apply. They pick and choose as regards how it benefits the WT society. Holy spirit has NOTHING to do with it. WT society BUSINESS and LEGAL interests have EVERYTHING to do with it.
What I'm saying is the WT society is a criminal organization. They are NOT ethical enough to make Biblical decisions based on what they allegedly perceive in the Scriptures. They may outwardly CLAIM scriptural precedent has the bearing on their decisions , in order to save face - but that's NOT the main thing that determines organizational policy. What determines organizational policy is based on what's best for the legal interests of the WT society - only. One reason they settle out of court with child abuse victims. To avoid excess media attention and costly month to month legal court costs. THAT is what determines their decisions- NOT the Bible. Believe me- they aren't that ethical.
TALESIN- Exactly. If WT society were following Jesus teachings to love one's neighbor as themself they wouldn't treat child abuse victims as they do. They'd rather instruct elders to IMMEDIATLEY report ANY child abuse to police without hiding it. But due to legal concerns it's not how the WT society handles it
@talespin @flipper
if your a pedo you might think your doing just fine and listening to jesus command. remember different people have different opinions of whats right, thats why one needs a proper list. in fact as shown on tv, most pedos see nothing evil with their ways. jesus words are useless in determing the ideals or laws for a nation. thery are just to open.
MP - Your line of reasoning is very strange in my opinion.
Your statement, " If your a pedo you might think you're doing just fine and listening to Jesus command. " Yeah, O.K. And Charles Manson claimed HE was Jesus too - but he still bludgeoned innocent people to death ! Did that make him accurate or correct in his doing so ?
Your statement, " remember different people have different opinions of whats right " - Indeed , you mean like Saddam Hussein who had millions of Iraqi's murdered unjustly in his country when HE was alive and the leader ? " That's why one needs a proper list " WHAT proper list ? People don't need a proper list to realize pedophilia, murder, and sexual abuse of children are wrong ! Sheesh !
Your statement, " Most pedos see nothing evil with their ways. " Uh-huh. That doesn't mean they AREN'T EVIL ! Hitler didn't see evil in his ways either. He was insane, had a mental condition. So do pedophiles. They are mentally insane and have a criminal bent that in most all cases cannot be cured. In fact, if these are your views - who knows perhaps you may be a little skewed yourself
*** w11 8/15 p. 18 A History-Making Meeting ***
Brother Lett’s opening talk was an enthusiastic discussion of Jehovah’s celestial chariot as described in the Bible book of Ezekiel. This colossal, glorious vehicle pictures God’s organization, with Jehovah in complete control. Its heavenly part, composed of spirit creatures, moves with lightning speed—the speed of Jehovah’s own thoughts,
So, if Jehovah is in complete control of his organization on earth it is not a human organization run by imperfect men.
As for "moving with lightening speed," don't even get me started!
@flipper
MP - Your line of reasoning is very strange in my opinion.
Your statement, " If your a pedo you might think you're doing just fine and listening to Jesus command. " Yeah, O.K. And Charles Manson claimed HE was Jesus too - but he still bludgeoned innocent people to death ! Did that make him accurate or correct in his doing so ?
Your statement, " remember different people have different opinions of whats right " - Indeed , you mean like Saddam Hussein who had millions of Iraqi's murdered unjustly in his country when HE was alive and the leader ? " That's why one needs a proper list " WHAT proper list ? People don't need a proper list to realize pedophilia, murder, and sexual abuse of children are wrong ! Sheesh !
@mp
You fail to grasp the difference between my statements of fact, your opinion and my own personal thoughts on these matters. I hate Saddam and Manson and hope they burn in hell if it existed without doubt. You however fail to understand that different people have different opinions of good and bad and how they wish to be treated.
As an example with extremes where Jesus words fail is the famous case of that German nut a few years ago who wanted to be killed and eatten. Should BJB be allowed to kill others because he wanted to be killed ? If we take Jesus words at face value the answer is yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabalism
In March 2001 in Germany, Armin Meiwes posted an Internet ad asking for "a well-built 18 to 30 year old to be slaughtered and consumed". The ad was answered by Bernd Jürgen Brandes . Meiwes stabbed Brandes in the neck with a kitchen knife, kissing him first then chopped him up into several pieces. He placed several piece of Mr Brandes in the freezer. Over the next few weeks, Meiwes defrosted and cooked parts of Brandes in olive oil and garlic and eventually consumed 20kg of human flesh. Meiwes was convicted of manslaughter and later, murder. The songs "Mein Teil" by Rammstein and "Eaten" by Bloodbath are based on this case. [citation needed]
It is evident that Jesus words can so easily be twisted and have different meanings to anyone that it just fails. Its piss weak. It took christians nearly 1800 years to realise that slaves were people as well and deserved their freedom and equality.
AMELIA ASHTON- Good point. WT society leaders constantly try to PRETEND that they teach that God runs their organization but in truth WT leaders THEMSELVES believe THEY make policy for rank & file JW's, not God. But they have to give the APPEARANCE that they think God runs things.
MP- I don't fail to understand anything you're saying. I get it - that you do not approve of these freaks like Manson or Hussein. I agree that " different people have different opinions of good and bad and how they wish to be treated. " I GET that. However normal human society has certain laws and principles that help society get along better in peace if these universal laws and principals are followed. If a person WISHES to be treated in ways where it infringes on other people's rights or peace , or endangers other people's lives or well being - I don't give a $hit about that person's wishes ! If a person insists on their " rights " or " wishes " to the detriment of other humans lives and threatens their physical, mental, or emotional well being - in my opinion that is a mentally unbalanced individual who has issues or insecurities THEY have to deal with. I still don't think some claimed " Christians " value true freedom- some use religion as a whipping post as well. Peace out, mr. Flipper
I'm sorry, I haven't read all this thread yet. The first paragraph of the 'Official Dub Instruction' in the opening post was enough to make me respond.
It says, if I understand it correctly, that on receipt of an allegation of child abuse, Dubs interview the alleged offender and the victim, and if the alleged offender denies it, put them face-to-face.
NO, NO, NO, NO.
There is a well-defined and universally-recognised way of dealing with child abuse allegations throughout the western world - whichever agency receives the report (e.g. school, doctor, social services, police, etc.) and the Dubs don't figure in it. Unless of course a Dub is the person who receives the initial report, in which case their only role is to immediately pass it on to a proper authority then stand aside.
Before I retired I did, sadly, have to deal with many cases of child abuse. Had I ever come across a case where a Dub had acted as in this directive then he would have had a 100% chance of being arrested and a good chance of being charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice or a like offence.
Thought I'd bump this thread I did out of the archives. The debates here got pretty heated and I noticed Joe Grundy bumped it up a year ago. Thought newer members might find it interesting. Peace out, mr. Flipper
