Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus (page 12)

Band on the Run

Stating that my culture, tradition and everything else that influences my faith are just as potent as some dogmatic belief is NOT odd and risky. For one, it is my belief. It is not presented for your approval. My faith in Christ is every bit as real as a Chinese person who believes in the Buddha. If I were raised in Hindu, all my being would illuminate the Vedic gos as the way to go. Stating that scripture is unclear does not mean I have no faith. It addresses the limits of my knowledge.

I am a NYer. When the planes attacked on 9.11, I found that beneath my Eorpean beliefs I was very American. My faith is not a love it or leave it faith. My life has exposed me to many foreigners and immigrants whom I respect who have a different faith tradition. The Church fathers agreed Christology was not clear when they canonized the Bible. If the Bible is one thing, it is not a sterile collection of creeds and manifestos.

I won't pit my vibrant powerful Jesus against yours. For anyone to fully understand Christ is beyond me. God is transcedent in Jewish and Christian belief. The scholarly literature on Christology is staggering. One can have doubt and belief at the same time. I'm sorry if your Christ is so puny b/c mine can only be found in the tensions.

godrulz

Jesus is either God or He is not, Creator or creature. There is no tension here, no grey area, no confusion. It is black and white. Either we worship Him as God or we do not. If He is God, it is wrong to not worship Him. If He is not God, it is wrong to worship Him. We don't have to understand kenotic details, etc., but we do have to make a decision whether trinitarianism or Arianism is true or false. Jesus does not give room to invent an idol of him. He has revealed who He is, so trust Him even without exhaustive understanding.

Jn. 1:1; Jn. 20:28 Either say what Thomas did and be saved or reject what He said and be lost. The details are not the salvific issue.

allelsefails

Godrulz. - I am neither ignorant of church dogma or history - I just think it is ridiculous. The fact that the "Bible" is a more recent invention than you will admit shows your ignorancw of history. I believe EVERYTHING in your Church History and Dogma is as stupid as the Russell/Rutherford/Knorr silliness of the JWs. You are a Blasphemous heretic by the same criteria that ARIUS was. I believe what Jesus said about his nature. Not you say about it.

Again - Please show me one scripture that disagrees with my view of Father and Son.......

godrulz

Jesus claimed to be God and equal with the Father.

allelsefails

Godrulz - Waiting for 1 scripture...... you know my view on Father and Son...

godrulz

Actually, I forgot or did not understand your view. Refresh my memory (hard to keep track of everyone).

allelsefails

It was adifferent post, but basically - Father and son are equal in power (omnipotent). However Father = lifegiver. Therefore the Father created the Son to be his SON. That is every bit his nature, but not the SAME in eternity or position.I have a son who is 4" taller than me and whoop my a$$, but I am still the Father. He respects my position. We are the same nature (DNA) but we are not he same person. My father and I are the same nature but he was born in 1940 I was born..... much later, but we are still Father/Son the Same Nature - just as Yaweh and Yeshua.

As an example of the relationship - A king that has a son who is well qualified to be king. You appoint him to be Co-ruler. You trust him implicitly. NEVER is a Father/Son relationship interpreted as you are the SAME person. The Father is Lifegiver to the Son that is the Only the relationship can be interpreted. Anything else is silly.

Wonderment

snowbird: "The crowning point of the WT's error, imo, is their mauling of John 1:1 and 8:58.

There is simply no justification for their mistranslation of those verses." Sylvia

"Mauling"? Not so quick!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/34916458/The-correct-translation-of-John-1-1

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35318309/The-correct-translation-of-John-8-58-List-of-alternate-readings-to-I-am-I-have-been-I-was-I-exist

snowbird

Thank you for that information, Wonderment.

I've read extensively on that subject.

Yet, I assert that the "translators" of the NWT used every method available to them to obscure the Deity of Jesus of Nazareth.

Syl

Podobear

I come from London, U.K. There is a whole circuit of Greek and Cypriot JW's in the North of the Capital. The JW's are well known in Greece, I believe they rank as second or third in religious group size in Greece and Cyprus.

I wonder if there are any Greek/Cypriot Nationals on this forum to back up the "incorrect" translation of John 1:1 in the NWT.

I think you will find that the Greek/Cypriot Nations are the best to explain ho'Theos in their own language. There is a difference in having the Nature of Almighty God and being Almighty God.

Surely the Greek Scriptures writers would simply tidy up their script by being direct... what do I mean? "For God so loved the world that he came to..."

Why not leave out the word WITH in John 1:1 for example...

The Scriptures are written beautifully to distinguish between Almighty God and The Messiah, or Sent Forth One, who volunteered on our behalf and died for Us, and who was exalted. Almighty God and the Son of God are not the same.

Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

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