Theists who have no issues with biological evolution - lame or not?

by nicolaou 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    .

    Ned Flanders

    A poster recently described himself that way and it got me thinking as to just how strange that position is. For the theist it's a convenient win/win situation, hold onto your belief in god while attempting to cloak yourself in Science's robes of rationality and reason. I think believers who hold this precarious opinion need calling on it.

    For now I'll just say that this mongrelization of views is, to me, deeeply unsatisfying. It reminds me of that episode of The Simpsons where Homer and Ned bet on who's son will win a putting competion. Because of his lame inability to accept that it is okay for a child to lose, Ned Flanders amends the bet so that the father of the boy 'who does not win' the tournament will mow the lawn of his neighbors house in his wife's Sunday dress.

    Theists who believe in evolution are attemting to change the bet on the Creation/Evolution debate to one where no side loses - LAME!

    It simply masks the real question - is there a God or not? If there is, ask yourself why he would utilize evolution to accomplish the creation of the Universe and all life within it.

    Nic'

  • Tuesday
    Tuesday

    I don't really think it's lame, it's basically accepting that evolution is correct because of the overwhelming evidence but not accepting there is no reason for first cause. No matter what Science cannot trace the first cause, they can trace back to the beginning to show how something happened, but not why.

    Alot of scientists are theists, like Ken Miller who is the biggest opponent of Intelligent Design out there. If the first cause is found to not be God scientifically then this excuse would be lame, until then give them props for believing in evolution. That's a leap alot of creationists can't make.

  • truthsetsonefree
    truthsetsonefree
    I don't really think it's lame, it's basically accepting that evolution is correct because of the overwhelming evidence but not accepting there is no reason for first cause. No matter what Science cannot trace the first cause, they can trace back to the beginning to show how something happened, but not why.

    This is what I starting thinking as a JW. If God is all powerful then he can do what he wants right? Now that I feel more free to think what I want I've just suspended judgment on the whole God issue as there seems to be circumstantial evidence for both positions.

    Isaac

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    is there a God or not? If there is, ask yourself why he would utilize evolution to accomplish the creation of the Universe and all life within it.

    And then ask yourself why not...

  • John Doe
    John Doe

    I thought theist and lame were synonyms. . .

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr

    evolution to accomplish the creation of the Universe

    That's quite a feat.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    That's quite a feat.

    Indeed, and we are only touching the tip of the iceberg. There is so much beauty yet to be revealed in the natural world regarding the unity and adaptibility of biological life. Perhaps it is also part of the Plan that we continue our own evolution by incorporating our newfound knowledge and mastery into our organic natures.

     Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Superman- a rope over an abyss. A dangerous crossing, a dangerous wayfaring, a dangerous looking-back, a dangerous trembling and halting.* What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not a goal: what is lovable in man is that he is an over-going and a down-going.
    The current iteration of the eternal return?
    *Phillipians 2:12
    I feel such a joy.
    BTS
  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Shamelessly copied from Wikipedia, I think this sums it up very well (Nicolau, I recommend you look up the link "conflict thesis" which is an idea where much of your hostility of religion may stem):

    Theistic evolution is the general opinion that classical religious teachings about God and creation are compatible with some or all of the modern scientific understanding about biological evolution. Theistic evolution is not a theory in the scientific sense, but a particular view about how the science of evolution relates to some religious interpretations. In this way, theistic evolution supporters can be seen as one of the groups who deny the conflict thesis regarding the relationship between religion and science; that is, they hold that religious teachings about creation and scientific theories of evolution need not be contradictory. In describing early proponents of this viewpoint, it is sometimes described as Christian Darwinism. [ 1 ] A very similar view, that is hardly distinguishable from a scientific viewpoint, is Evolutionary Creationism. [ 2 ]

    The term was used by National Center for Science Education executive director Eugenie Scott to refer to the part of the overall spectrum of beliefs about creation and evolution holding the theological view that God creates through evolution. It covers a wide range of beliefs about the extent of any intervention by God, with some approaching deism in rejecting continued intervention. Others see intervention at critical intervals in history in a way consistent with scientific explanations of speciation, but with similarities to the ideas of Progressive Creationism that God created "kinds" of animals sequentially. [ 3 ]

    This view is accepted (or at least not rejected) by major Christian churches, including Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church and some mainline Protestant denominations; some Jewish denominations; and other religious groups that lack a literalist stance concerning holy scriptures. Various biblical literalists have accepted or noted openness to this stance, including theologian B.B. Warfield and evangelist Billy Graham.

    With this approach toward evolution, scriptural creation stories are typically interpreted as being allegorical in nature. Both Jews and Christians have considered the idea of the creation history as an allegory (instead of a historical description) long before the development of Darwin's theory. A notable Christian example is St. Augustine (4th century). [ 4 ] , while three noted Jewish examples are that of the writings of Philo of Alexandria (1st century), [ 5 ] Maimonides (12th century) and Gersonides (13th century). [ 6 ] [ 7 ]

    Theistic evolutionists argue that it is inappropriate to use Genesis as a scientific text, since it was written in a pre-scientific age and originally intended for religious instruction; as such, seemingly chronological aspects of the creation accounts should be thought of in terms of a literary framework. Theistic evolutionists may believe that creation is not literally a week long process but a process beginning in the time of Genesis and continuing through all of time, including today. This view affirms that God created the world and was the primary causation of our being, while scientific changes such as evolution are part of "creatia continua" or continuing creation which is still occurring in the never ending process of creation. Changes such as these caused by science are part of a secondary causation that changes us within the framework of the world God has created with primary causation. [clarification needed (incoherent)] This is one possible way of interpreting biblical scriptures, such as Genesis, that seem to be in opposition to scientific theories, such as evolution. [ 8 ]

    The term evolutionary creationism refers to an understanding of God that transcends yet includes normal time and space, with nature having no existence independent of God. It allows interpretations consistent with both literal and poetic readings of Genesis and objective science.

    BTS

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32

    Scientifically speaking, evolution has nothing to do with god. The theory is therefore not incompabitle with a belief in god.

    When I was still a JW and realized that evolution happened, I thought maybe it was a natural force that God created. I thought I'd just secretly believe in evolution and still accept the rest of the JW stuff (this was before I actually found fault in their theology, mind you). It didn't take me long to realize this wouldn't work. The whole Adam/Eve/original sin thing doesn't work if evolution is in the mix since there wouldn't have been just two original humans.

    I know some theists that don't have a problem with accepting Evolution and still believing in original sin. They rationalize it by believing that god, at some point in human evolution, chose an Adam and Eve to be the ones that were first granted souls. They were the ones that would be the parents of the rest of humanity as we know it. I don't know what supposedly happened to Adam and Eve's soulless human contemporaries though, or their offspring. Personally I find this reasoning very weak.

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC

    Not lame. Evolution has nothing to do with the belief in god/no belief in god debate.

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