Exactly. Probably a better example because it's more contemporary.
Should women be allowed to have 14 kids without job?
by sammielee24 280 Replies latest jw friends
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cognizant dissident
As JD pointed out, there is no over-population problem in North America or Europe. Perhaps people's outrage at someone having 14 children would be more constructively spent in countries where children are starving and women have no access to birth control and no cultural power over their own reproductive choices.
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purplesofa
I should have read this before I made my last post.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ilIx-PXnXPpwF1a_nlRYF00fzBIQD964FOAO0
Octuplets mom is not getting showered with gifts
By SHAYA TAYEFE MOHAJER and JOHN ROGERS – 3 hours ago
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Where is the unlimited supply of diapers, formula and baby wipes? The free van? The brand-new house?
Women who give birth to six, seven or eight babies are often showered with dazzling gifts from big corporations, local businesses and strangers. But that is not happening with the Southern California mother who delivered octuplets last week.
The news that she is a single mother with six other children — and that all 14 were conceived by having embryos implanted — seems to have turned off many people, and companies are not exactly rushing to get publicity by piling on the freebies.
Nadya Suleman, 33, has been lambasted by talk-show hosts, fertility experts, even her own mother, who has her hands full taking care of Suleman's other children, ages 2 to 7.
A veteran Hollywood publicist said Suleman's handlers have their work cut out for them in trying to win public sympathy for her.
"I think it's a calamity," said publicist David Brokaw, who has handled crises for celebrities. "I don't see, the way this is shaped, how you can say much about it in terms of something favorable."
Makers of diapers, formula and other products would probably want to steer clear of her, Brokaw said. He suggested she lie low for now and concentrate on crafting an image as a responsible parent.
Gerber spokesman David Mortazavi said that if the baby-food maker was planning to do something for the family, it probably would have done it already, and that the octuplets' birth was not on Gerber's radar. He would not elaborate.
Procter & Gamble spokeswoman Tricia Higgins said that the maker of Pampers does not actively seek out parents to sponsor, but that the octuplets' mother can ask for what is typically provided in multiple births: a jumbo pack of diapers for each child, baby wipes, and coupons for discounts. That is unlikely to last Suleman a week.
Conservative radio talk show host Bill Handel in Los Angeles, who has branded the births "freakish," said on the air Tuesday that people are ready to boycott any corporations that help the octuplets or their mother.
Suleman's spokesman Mike Furtney said that he has received some "fairly negative" comments from the public but that offers to help with the babies have come in from nurses, and some baby stores have stepped forward to volunteer their support.
"I don't remember the brand name, but one major disposable diaper company sent some diapers," he said. Furtney said he was confident that once Suleman tells her story, many of her critics will "readjust their thinking a little."
Furtney said Suleman has had offers for TV and other media deals, but he added it was too early to discuss how much money she might receive.
For a single mother, the cost of raising 14 children through age 17 ranges from $1.3 million to $2.7 million through age 17, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
The Suleman octuplets' medical costs have not been disclosed, but the average cost for just one cesarean birth in 2006 was $22,762 in California. The Suleman babies were born nine weeks premature. In California, a single premature birth in 2006 led to an average hospital stay of 25 days and cost $164,273. That would amount to a $1.3 million bill for eight.
Suleman's income is unclear. She was employed by a mental hospital from 1997 through 2008.
Nasty callers dominated the phone lines in the first few days after the octuplets were born at Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center.
"We heard a lot of outrage because there was a vacuum of information and people were going on rumor and conjecture," said hospital spokeswoman Socorro Serrano.
But calls of encouragement, particularly from mothers of multiples, have also poured in, along with offers of hand-me-downs and tips, Serrano said.
In 1998, Nkem Chukwu of Houston became the first mother to give birth to octuplets in the U.S. The family lives in a donated, six-bedroom suburban home, and the stay-at-home mom had a small army of volunteers help feed and care for the seven surviving babies for the first few years.
The parents of the McCaughey septuplets — seven babies born in Iowa in 1997 — received a donated 16-room house, a 15-passenger van, baby food from Gerber, and a lifetime supply of Pampers from Procter & Gamble.
The stars of The Learning Channel's reality show "Jon and Kate Plus 8," about a couple with sextuplets and twins, are paid, and have received a slew of freebies through the show, including trips to Hawaii and New York, a tummy tuck for mom and hair plugs for dad.
TLC President Eileen O'Neill said production companies that work with TLC have already made offers to Suleman's family, but the network is waiting to see how TV-friendly the family is.
"We're certainly like the rest of America; we're waiting to see how this develops," O'Neill said. "The number of children or scale of the multiples is intriguing, but it also comes down to what are the family's lives like?"
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mrsjones5
I think the outrage is steming from the fact that this woman already had 6 prior children by IVF (by a donor who had requested that she stop concieving using his sperm - oops too late she had 8 more - poor guy now he's gonna have 14 kids looking for him), has no visible means of support other than her father who has already left the country to work to support her kids and her mother (who is currently raising the first six with help of nanny (who's paying for that? oh yeah Granddad, silly me) has already publicly stated that when the 8 additional bundles of joy come home to the three bedroom 1500 square foot house she won't be there (yeah Grandma you've been used).
Now this woman has hired a publicist and is scouting offers.
As more and more comes out it just smells worst and worst.
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purplesofa
I had twins three years after having my first one. I am telling you, it was tough. I cannot imagine taking care of all those kids, even with help.
purps
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cognizant dissident
Thanks for posting that purps. I especially liked this line:
"We heard a lot of outrage because there was a vacuum of information and people were going on rumor and conjecture," said hospital spokeswoman Socorro Serrano.
I also noticed all the other families were living in donated homes and with donated food, cars, clothes etc. No one is screaming in outrage about them living off of others in society. They all used fertility drugs also.
What is it about this woman that sparks so much anger? Could it be because she is unmarried and used a sperm donor? I think she has violated the moral values of many Americans and she will be punished. If that's the way you feel fine, but be honest about it and don't make up psuedo issues about population control, or her supposed mental instability, with no evidence to support it.
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purplesofa
I think she has violated the moral values of many Americans and she will be punished.
Nah, People will come around. Americans will find a way to be happy about this in spite of all the mess of it. She is going to be watched like a hawk, people will come to her aid for the children and time will tell if she can really handle this huge responsibility even with loving, caring, charity from others. Hopefully it won't turn into a disaster and be even more overwhelming than it already is for everyone involved. Well except Grandma who already said she was bailing.
purps
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mrsjones5
Maybe some of the anger comes from the way she did it.
Folks who use IVF do it mostly because they have to. They can't concieve any other way and those who do are lucky that they can afford to do it or that their medical insurance covers it. I took fertility drugs to convieve my first two. My body kicked in after that and I was able to concieve on my own (I didn't have to go the IVF route and at that time I had Kaiser and they made it clear that it was something that they would be hesitant to cover - maybe they're changed their policy in the last 15 years).
Some women aren't so lucky. And I guess to some what that woman did just smack of abuse of the system, though I am in awe that she was able to get Kaiser to do it for her. I've had Kaiser and getting approval to do something like IVF was like pulling a stubborn tooth.
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cognizant dissident
I read another article that said Kaiser did not do the implantation for her. It was done at an undisclosed clinic and she came to Kaiser when she was 12 weeks pregnant. Another article said she paid for it herself out of an insurance settlement she received.
In still another article, her mother claims she did not intend to have 8 children. She fully expected that most of the embryo's would not implant. This is born out by statistics. The implantation rate for women under 40 is only 9%. There is only a 16% chance of sucessful pregnancy with each inplantation. Normally two embryo's are implanted at each cycle to minimize the risk of multiple births to twins. However, at approximately $10,000 per inplantation procedure and only a 10% success rate, many couples cannot afford this route. Perhaps she and her doctor agreed to take the risk of implanting all embryo's at once fully believing that that would at least ensure her odds of one embryo taking. This would seem the only hope if the embryo's were about to expire and she only had enough money for one implantation procedure.
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purplesofa
And I guess to some what that woman did just smack of abuse of the system,
That's it really, we really aren't that moral, but we do tend to get pissed off when we are taken advantage of.
People really want to give, but they don't like being manipulated or abused.
Somehow with the other multiple births mentioned you are happy with their happiness, and you can share with it, this woman, her situation is sending out huge I AM SELFISH vibes, what are you going to do for me now that I have had all these kids.
purps