The doctors who implanted the 8 embryos in this woman deserve to lose the licenses to practice medicine. They knowingly implanted 8 fetuses into a woman they knew already had six children. They did this not because they cared about their patient but because they were looking for professional acclaim. I think they should lose their licenses and should have to pay to support the children they so unethically created.
Should women be allowed to have 14 kids without job?
by sammielee24 280 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
LouBelle
quietlyleaving: don't go JW on me, keep my comments in context of the topic. Secondly would you care to elaborate on your comment (for arguments' sake)
-
Hope4Others
I think the whole thing is ludicris...having that many kids at that age and will no way give them the nuturing and care they need, it seems to me it attention she wants and everyone else to support her....book deal, promotions etc...she's out for the money with not much thought to the childrens lives...
The guy requested she not be able to use his sperm again...he should have a say here to this insanity or fixation she has on him...
h4o
-
quietlyleaving
loubelle here is what you said
If you cannot support a child and give it what it needs emotionally, physcially, materially, spiritually then you shouldn't have children.
my reply to you. in that case no one would have any babies (for arguments sake).
quietlyleaving: don't go JW on me, keep my comments in context of the topic. Secondly would you care to elaborate on your comment (for arguments' sake)
If I sound JW then so be it. But to be fair your first comment above sounds more JW to me in that Jehovahs witnesses also express similar sentiments when they say wait for the new system to have your children because then material, emotional, physical and spiritual conditions will be right.
My for "arguments sake" comment stems from the implications of your comment and was intended to open up the discussion and not to critcise you personally.
To me JWs make their comments about waiting for the new system to have children because they are highly critical and fearful of life as it now. Whereas I have come to have much more confidence in life itself and its abilities to survive even under the most appalling conditions. Babies and children bring with them their own inate potential not just for survival but also for the enjoyment of life. I know you believe this too but I'm saying so now because it balances the idea that conditions need to be right before we have children.
The title of this topic Should women be allowed to have 14 kids without a job? says more about the present economic climate of adult fear for ourselves than the needs of a child. It seems to me that as the population in the West gets older there's a need for everyone to be working as hard as possible to protect the pensions of the elderly and to protect our own persions (together with all the health care involved) when we get older. It seems that we are saying babies and children can wait as we need to look out for the adults individually first and all the way to the grave too. I may be wrong on this but to me it seems that the west is set on a nihilistic course and that bothers me.
Once again I'm saying all this for discussion.
-
quietlyleaving
wow that post had lots of mistakes but i've finsihed editing it now but have a class today so won't be able to reply till my lunch break
-
LouBelle
Let's take this woman who has had 14 children and she has no job - How is she going to provid on the just material front for her children? More than likely she isn't going to be able too, regardless of the economic situation (don't know if the state provides wealfare in these cases?) 14 children is a lot mouths to feed, bodies to clothes, minds to educate whether times are good or bad, whether she had a job or not. In any economic climate it should boil down to the needs of the the children, and in regular cases many billions of parents have met those criteria not only in this day and age but throughout history, - your reply to my initial comment came across that you didn't see it so (arguements sake) and thus the JW comment (the world is so bad, and the usual blah blah that goes along with their reasoning, and waiting for a new order) Clearly this woman shouldn't have 14 kids.
-
cognizant dissident
It's not clear to me. I thought ql had some valid and well thought out points in her post.
There are a number of misconceptions about in vitro fertilization that are persisting on this thread. First of all, 144001 said that the doctors knowingly implanted fetuses into this woman. Fetuses are not transplanted into the womb. An embryo does not become a fetus until 8 weeks. Embryos are transferred to the womb with the full knowledge of the doctors that only 10% of them will successfully attach (implant) to the womb. Doctors normally transfer two embryos at a time to the womb as even a 10% risk of multiple births more than twins is seen as too high. So, it is agreed that transferring 8 embryos at a time does not follow normal procedures. Still, at a normal rate of implantation of 10% of transferred embryos, it can hardly be claimed that the doctors or the woman deliberately planned that all 8 embryos would take or that their original motivation was fame or fortune. This is a gross assumption with no evidence to support it. Perhaps they merely thought that risk of multiple births was acceptable despite prevailing medical protocol. In one article, the woman's mother is quoted as saying her daughter did not think all 8 embryo's would successfully implant when she had the procedure done.
Multiple births are also a common risk with fertility drugs which is how the only other surviving set of octuplets was conceived. When multiple births occur due to fertility drugs, doctors will often suggest some of the embryos should be culled (aborted) to reduce the risk to mother and surviving embryos. Many mothers refuse for ethical reasons. Perhaps, this womans doctors did suggest that to her and she refused. The woman was already twelve weeks old when she presented herself to Kaiser that delivered the babies. The doctors and clinic that did the original procedure were not disclosed and are receiving no fame or fortune or professional acclaim as has been suggested.
When a man donates his sperm to a fertility clinic, he loses all legal rights to have any say in how that sperm is used or over any children that are produced from it. That is normal procedure. I suppose if a man donated sperm to a single woman he knew, he could have a legal contract drawn up beforehand stipulating how it is to be used, but certainly he would have no legal claims after the fact. Actually, he could not request she stop using his sperm because she was not implanted with his sperm. Fresh sperm only lasts for a few days at most. The sperm was all used immediately to create embryos and then the embryos are frozen specifically for future use in subsequent pregnancies. Sperm donors should read the fine print before they donate. Sperm donors have no say over how the embryos are used unless they have a specific contract drawn up beforehand to stipulate this. If you don't like the idea of having 14 of your kids running around the city, then don't donate your sperm!
I realize that it's much more fun to run with speculation and rumor and moral judgements on people and situations we don't really know than it is to take the time and effort to do an in depth examination of all sides of an issue, but I think we are benefited as people and as a society if we make the effort to do so.
-
Country Girl
Not to mention that in multiple births over three babies, oftentimes the babies are born with EXTREME heart and lung problems that require massive amounts of medical attention, sometimes over years. Simply irresponsible and selfish of the mother and the doctors who did it!
-
snowbird
I believe the woman must have presented an incomplete history; I can't see any doctor doing an IVF procedure on a woman who already has 6 children and no husband.
I just can't see it.
A while ago, I worked at a public health facility. Some of the women who were seen there routinely lied about past pregnancies, abortions, STD's, etc.
Sylvia
-
Caedes
How on earth can this woman think she will be capable of giving all of those kids the time they each need, she is utterly selfish.