To Larc: ON ECONOMIC STUFF

by You Know 64 Replies latest jw friends

You Know

LOL. That's what I mean. You just demonstrated the very clownish technique of an apostate in what amounts to changing the subject in order to advance the deception that you practice on youself and each other. I am not talking about Watchtower scandal trivia. I am talking about the end of the world----your world. / You Know
joelbear

I think Larc and You Know both have good points.
Yes, the quality of life for the US and Western Europe and sporadic parts of the 3rd world have improved in the last 50 years.
However, it is simply a fact that much of this wealth is paper wealth, carried on balance sheets but not backed up by real assets of any kind.
Things are only worth what they are worth, not what someone declared that they are worth.
I disagree with You Know on a couple of points.
1. I don't think the world collapse will be a bang that happens overnight. I think we have probably lived through the peak of economic good times over the past 50 years and that things are gonna be tougher from here on. I think we'll see more random acts of terrorism here in the US that will keep things muddled for the rest of our lives. As I look at my stock portfolio and the opportunities for further growth for the companies I own, the only shot at large growth is China and India and possibly Eastern Europe. The world can only buy so many cars, refrigerators, etc. The world can also only hold so much debt. He's got some good points whether we like it or not. We are squandering natural resources at an ever more hectic rate as we try to keep the pipeline of luxury that we have become accustomed to open. By luxury I mean the middle class american way of life that is opulent luxury when compared with the 4.5 Billion people or so that basically still live in poverty. We better figure out a way to make those people consumers and very fast.
2. I don't think a supernatural being will swoop in and save us from ourselves. Its a matter of faith. You Know has faith in it, I don't. I think we better prepare to dig ourselves out of the mire that we create. One Bible scripture I strongly agree with is, As you sow, so also will you reap.
I think the wise course is somewhere in the middle, I hope to be a realist, neither a Pollyanna or an Eeyore.
But my research is one reason I've decided against heavy stock bets and decided to move to real assets for the majority of my money. I'm glad I did as well as I did during the euphoria and wish I hadn't been quite so Pollyannish then, I would have done better.
Joel
larc

You Know,
I read the LaRouch article you referenced. He provides a little more verbal detail but no quantitative date or references to such data.
Now, it is hard for to me to fatham how you can say that our productivity is much worse than it was in the 1960's. When I look all around me, in average people's and in retail stores and see direct eviedence to the contrary. In previous posts, I listed over thirty products that take less working time to purchase today than 35 years ago. Perhaps, you have some romantic notion of life in 1960. I lived then and remember it well. I can tell you that the quality and convenience of life for the average person is far superior today. Since you can not remember that far back, how about if you think about life when you were ten years old and compare it to today. Can you honestly say, that you had higher standard of living then? I can only imagine it, if your parents were rich and you have been downwardly mobile since leaving home.
Regarding 1960, I could list at least 50 products or inventions that have made our life far better today, that is used to be. It is very eary to live today on a very modest income if one is willing to give up all the luxuries that have been developed since 1960.
dubla

LOL. That's what I mean. You just demonstrated the very clownish technique of an apostate in what amounts to changing the subject in order to advance the deception that you practice on youself and each other. I am not talking about Watchtower scandal trivia. I am talking about the end of the world----your world. / You Know
well, i wasnt really trying to change the subject, just inject a little humor. i just always find it ironic when you, and other jws on this board make statements directd toward "apostates" that are actually mirror reflections of themselves. sometimes i point out these funny little reversals, but it wasnt a "technique" with the intention of accomplishing anything, save pointing out the irony.
aa
You Know

When I look all around me, in average people's and in retail stores and see direct eviedence to the contrary.
For a guy who demands hard data that's not a very scientific approach, is it? There are numerous reasons that account for the fact that consumers are still able to buy stuff at the moment. As I pointed out, most consumer products are produced elsewhere in third world nations, some under slave labor wages and conditions. So just because Joe Consumer is still able to buy a few things is no measure of economic productivity. It's the oposite, in fact. Secondly, consumer and corporate debt are at unsustainable levels. That means that companies and individuals are only able to produce and provide by going deeper and deeper into debt. Corporate bond default and consumer credit card default are on a stratospheric trajectory. That's not something that can go on much longer.
For the most insightful analysis of the debt bubble situation, read Doug Nolan's weekly Credit Bubble Bulletin. He is not in any way associated with LaRouche, but he provides some of the best insights I have read anywhere. He updates his column every Friday evening.
CLICK HERE> >> http://www.prudentbear.com/credit.htm
To simply illustrate the situation you are describing, whereby you are relying on your senses to tell you that things are okay: Take the instance of a young man you buys a car that he can't really afford. But he wants it real bad. So, he talks someone in to loaning him the money to put down, and then he finances the rest too. Now, from all appearances, this guy owns a car. He's sitting in the driver's seat and all. It must be his car, right? But, the payments are really more than he can afford. And then when it comes time to fill up the tank he has to use his credit card. After a little while the car needs some fix'n. But he can't afford it, and no one will loan him any more money. So, after a short while the car breaks down, then gets repo-ed and he's back on foot. That's the way the present system is. Any appearance of prosperity is an illusion. Today's economic miracle is a fraud. It all based upon an inflated money supply, to service a mountain of unpayable debt. The so-calle wealth affect of recent years has not been due to increases in human productivity, but rather from profits from the artificial rise in the stock market.
That's it in a nut shell basically. You can judge for yourself whether it's a mere coincidence that the whole global Anglo financial system is coming down at this point in history when so many other things are converging to fulfill prophecy. To my mind, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses focused on God's prophetic word, there's no way it is coincidental. The system is in its terminal phase and Jehovah called it from the get-go. / You Know
AlanF

You Know meretriciously bleated:
: Yes, apostates like to make a big deal if I don't answer their questions in
: the way that they demand.
A typical misrepresention from the Booby King of liars. You rarely answer
questions truthfully. Often you don't answer at all, or you attempt to
sidetrack the issue with what have become humorously stereotypical
misrepresentations.
: Yet, when I do, usually there is no acknowledgement of that fact.
Nonsense. When you do, it's such an unusual event that you get all sorts of
attention.
: Then, they recycle the same lie over again saying that I can't answer their
: questions.
Like when they lie about your many fulfilled predictions, right? They claim
you've made false predictions every year, but you've been right every time.
What liars those nasty apostates are! Can't they see that the world ended
every year since 1997?
: The fact is, I have never backed down from any serious challenge presented
: by an apostate.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
The funniest time you backed down from a serious challenge was about three years
ago, when you were going to educate yourself about geology so as to 'prove' that
Noah's Flood was a Real Thing. Then you were going to educate everyone on the
H2O board. But you managed to reveal who you really were, Robert King from
Richland, Washington, and then scurried away like the coward you are. Since
then, you've avoided geology like the plague, just like Big Mommy does.
: Honest readers know that that is the truth.
Now they know even more truth about you, Booby.
: Maybe I don't allways respond to every post,
You kidder, you!
: sometimes there are just too many on any given thread, but that's not because
: I am unable.
Riiiight. Actually you only think you're able, but that's for the same
reason the poor Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail refused
to acknowledge defeat.
: Actually, I quite enjoy entertaining challenges to my faith and knowledge.
Actually, you quite enjoy avoiding real challenges to your faith and what you
only think is knowledge.
: It has always been a reaffirming experince for me to keep testing whether I
: really have the true faith.
It's more like one of old Freddie Franz's favorite expressions and
pastimes -- spiritual masturbation.
: I have been at this thing off and on for about a half decade now,
It's frustrating when you can't get off, eh?
: and so far there hasn't been anything apostates have thrown at me that I
: haven't handled.
"Handled" is right. Just like the Society has traditionally "handled" child
molestation cases -- pretend they don't exist, then threaten and bluster if the
molested child or her family makes noises about reporting to the authorities.
No, Booby, your opinion of your capabilities is as inflated as the Hindenberg.
And like it, you'll go down in flames.
AlanF
larc

You Know,
I used a qualitative analysis because, I have already given numerous examples of items that cost less today, items that use less energy, items that last longer, and items that have more features and functions. Looking around simply confirms what the data shows. Thus, quantitative and qualitative analysis agree. As Bob Dylan said, "You don't have to be a weather man to know which way the wind blows."
You in turn, used a qualitative case, the young person buying a car. Now, back it up with data. How has the rate of reposessions changed over the years?
Here are further statistics regarding productivity improvement in US industries as measured in out put per worker, from 1970 to 1995
Apparel 55%
Textiles 62%
Steel 15%
Coal Mining 59%
Railroad transport 29%
Agriculture 132%
Manufacturing 100%
As stated, this is productivity per worker. If it were measured in productivity per hour the percents would be even higher, since the average work week has gone down in these industries. Please show me, industry statistics where the output per worker has decreased.
One other statistc: In 1970 there were 9.8 billion long distance phone calls made requiring 411,000 telephone operators. In 1996, there were 94.9 billion long distance phone calls made. If we assumed no productivity growth, as you do, it would require 4.1 million telephone operators to handle the volume or 3.2% of the work force. Instead it only required 164,000 telephone operators, which is only .14% of the work force. In 1970, the average person had to work 40 minutes to pay for a 3 minute long distance phone call. In 1996, they had to work only 7 minutes to pay for that same call. Since 1996, rates continue to get cheaper. How can this be?
Also, I have named over thirty products that are cheaper and better today. How can this be, if our productivity is half what it once was? Please provide for me, a list of items that cost more as measured in the amount of time it takes to work to buy today as compared to the 1960's. I have looked. I can't find but one out of 30. Perhaps you can find more than I have.
You Know

No, Booby, your opinion of your capabilities is as inflated as the Hindenberg. And like it, you'll go down in flames.
Any day now I suppose, right? Your predictive powers are worse than mine Fraudbacker. LOL / You Know
larc

You Know,
Here are some items that either did not exist in 1960 or were not in the average home or neighborhood for access. VCRs, Air Conditioning, Remote Controls on anything, Garage Door Openers, Post it Notes, Xeroxing, PCs, the Internet, ATM machines, Drive through windows at restaurants and banks. Cordless Phones, Cordless Power Tools, Frost Free Refrigerators, Dish Washers, Self Cleaning Ovens, Bread Makers, Cell Phones, Crock Pots, Microwave Ovens, Prepared Froozen Foods - except for poor quality pot pies and tv dinners, Freezers, Anti Lock Brakes, CD music, CD storage, Fax Machines, Electronic Cash Registers, UPC Scanners, Car Washes, Velcroe, Radial Tires, Unleaded Gas, Motion Sensing Lights, Power Seats and Windows in Cars, Radios with scanners, Digital Cameras, Cable TV, Satellite TV, Automatice Check Deposit and Bill Payment at the Bank, DNA tesing, MRI's, CAT scans, Automatic Bowling Pin Setters, Telephone Redial and Number Storage, Mammograms, DVD players, Electric Typewriters, Word Processors, Teflon, Composite Materials, CAD/CAM Systems, Smoke Detectors, Microencapsolation, Laser Tecnology, Digital Watches, Industrial Robots, Camcorders, Disposable diapers, Fiber-optic cables, Radar Detecters, Home-security systems, Pagers, Coffee Makers, Automobile Air Bags, Laser Printers, Ink Jet Printers, Doppler Radar, Auto-focus Cameras, Answering Machines, Food Processors, Overnight Delivery, Soft Contact Lenses, Cornea Transplants, and Anti-ulcer Drugs.
Now, if you want to live without all of this, you can get by on a very limited income.
4horsemen

You Know,
I enjoy reading your posts. I even share (some) of your financial perspective. That said, I want to draw a parallel to religion and get your comments...
Let us suppose your (financial)experts are correct: The time is coming to pay the piper. A worldwide financial depression!
But Jah does NOT show up.
Now what?
The parallel. Please, tell me exactly how or rather what is the difference between the current financial system where the strong abuse the weak, the clever trip up the unaware, the rich take from the poor AND say the WTBS?
The examples too numerous to mention. But just a few: Blood flip flop. Organ transplant inconsistency. Mexico/Malawi. The _failed_ end times prophecies. The obliteration of the 1914 "generation". The doctrine/procedure changes.
This is not a matter of straining the gnat and swallowing the camel. It is not even a question of faith. I have faith there is a god. His name might even be Jehovah. Though Yahweh is probably more accurate.
BUT, I fail to see the difference between the financial powers that be in their manipulations to further their own agenda AND the WTBS manipulations.
"Millions Living Now Will Never Die" Was this not a keynote speech? Even a book? Yes, there is new light. Yes, we must have faith. Yes, we are all imperfect men. Yes, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god.
However, when 99% of those millions are DEAD, and even if those who said such things suspected if not outright knew what they were saying was untrue, is this not similar to those stocks analysts who say buy when they are selling you their inventory?
It doesnt seem that the WTBS is any more enlightened than anyone else. Especially for a orgainization which claims Gods direct channel status. The arguments you make for the end of this financial system could just as easily be turned to a religious nature (with track history of misrepsentation(s)) and used against your religion. Or any other for that matter.

To Larc: ON ECONOMIC STUFF

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