Well you can't prove he doesn't exist with 100% certianty. Then again you can't prove that there isn't a shaven yak in a canoe orbiting Saturn right now.
Atheists/Theists: What is the best argument FOR theism (a God's existence) you have heard?
by Spook 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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My Struggle
For me, I like the philosophical argument of the reformed epistemological approach to Christian apologetics. Namely that God is a properly basic belief.
Though, I have yet to see a debate form this perspective.
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inkling
'tis why I sleeps with an eyepatch and bandana..........
kinky
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parakeet
I don't think there is a "best" argument for God's existance. They're all pretty lame.
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quietlyleaving
I think the best argument I have heardfor the exisence of God is the faith argument. For example it is possible to have beliefs that are true but that don't rest on the kind of proof/evidence/justification that we apply to what we call "knowledge".
And then too, for instance, we may know something that turns out to be true but can't explain how for now. However intime we come to see that indeed there was a reliable/justifiable way by which we arrived at our conclusions.
The best argument against the existence of a transcendent God is the problem of evil including suffering and natural disasters etc.
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jaguarbass
the best argument for theism is that only a dumby can believe in evolution.
We didnt come from an amoeba.
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WTWizard
About the only evidence I have seen for the existence of any God at all is, when I try to meet the opposite sex, something always sabotages it beyond my control like clockwork. And that only shows me that God absolutely wants me all to Himself, and is not willing to check first. Certainly not the sort of God that I want to be wasting 100% of my life in sequestered service for. Rather, I would push my favorite two religions--atheism, and Devil worship--just so He can get punished for doing that with the worst cancer seed He has ever seen.
Even God is not above the principle of reaping what He sows. Ruin my sex life and then expect me to do sequestered service, and get the nastiest cancer seed you ever did see.
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Chalam
Hi metatron,
I have thought about this one quite a lot too. Wouldn't it be easier or better if God just showed up and everyone believed in Him and He sorted out all the problems?
I have puzzled since childhood as to why , if God exists, He doesn't talk to anyone. It seems to me that if God exists as a person, then speaking with us on a personal level would be his most obvious proof of existence. If otherwise, he expects us to obey him on the basis of an ancient book, written in dead languages, heavily interpreted, written by persons long dead and unknown to us and not even available to everyone. It makes no sense.
Unless of curse this is true
Hebrews 11:6 (New International Version)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
And this
Hebrews 11:1-3 (New International Version)
By Faith
1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
My belief is that God will show Himself and speak to us all directly at the time of His choosing. Until then, He speaks and shows His presence through various ways, His Holy Spirit, creation, the bible, His people, circumstances and God-incidences ("coincidences"). Also, He loves to hear from us too, that takes faith and He doesn't much like religion, just intimacy and faith.
My own answer to the whole "science is god" thing is that it is not answering the bigger questions (and likely never will) such as, what was there before the big bang? What will be after the universe 'comes back on itself' or ends? What is "outside" the universe? Are there other dimensions? What happens after we die? Why are we here? Is it really just by chance? What is consciousness i.e. do we have a soul? Do we have a spirit? Why is there much evidence to supernatural things beyond the laws of physics of this dimension? Is it really a coincidence that much of mankind thinks a God or gods exist and want to worship Him or them throughout the ages.
All the best,
Stephen
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inkling
We didnt come from an amoeba.
Yeah, well according to MY holy book, amoeba used to have magic powers,
and they invented unicorns, and then killed them in a giant flood of green
fairy sprinkles.I'm having an imaginary conversation with you in my head:
JB: We didn't come from amoeba.
Ink: So where DID we come from?
JB: Magic sky brain.
Ink: And where did Magic Sky Brain come from?
JB: Nowhere, it just always existed.
How many times do you have to be told that "magic" is not a theory!
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Gladring
Hi Chalam,
You touch on a subject of interest to me - faith. Sometimes it seems to me that believers' definitions of faith are subject to change depending on the argument at hand. It is always useful to have terms defined at the outset of a discussion.
From your quotes from the book of Hebrews, may I take it that your definition of faith is "to believe something with no evidence"? This would appear to make faith somewhat immune from criticism or analysis. In practice though, believers often cite forms of evidence to support their belief. You mention some of these in your post. You say "He speaks and shows His presence through various ways, His Holy Spirit, creation, the bible, His people, circumstances and God-incidences..." These certainly are forms of evidence, and are open to review and criticism. Without a holy book, or personal intuition/feeling, what do you base your beliefs on?
There must be a starting point for faith, something to hang your hat on. No matter how thin, there must be something which appears reasonable to start from. To quote from Romans 10-
However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?
and...
So faith follows the thing heard. In turn the thing heard is through the word about Christ.
Certainly this word, or testimony, about Christ is a form of evidence - evidence which we may examine and judge as to trustworthiness and authority.
You also mention the "big questions". Some of those you mention science has answered, or is in the process of answering. Some may never be answered. What makes you think that belief, unsupported by evidence, will answer these questions? Without evidence, all you have is your opinion (which is sometimes dressed in holy garb, and called "faith").
I look forward to hearing your reply.
RAmen!