Here comes the GUN CONTROL. (page 3)

llbh

The quotes of Naom Chomski speak volumes, and do make a lot of sense on many levels.

I have examined the arguments that the the gun lobby use as an argument, and claim as a right to bear arms, and have found them spurious at best, at least from a legal point of view. The citations that Drew Sagan adduces are imo correct. If someone says, 'i want a gun to protect myself' period' that is at least honest and open; to use the law as a cloak to enable them to do so is at best a very difficult way to proceed.

A while back we in Britain we made our gun laws even more stringent, and by and large we are safe.

We also should make efforts to work out ways of enabling people ( usually men, and usually young) ways of dealing with stressful situations without the need to resort to violence, however extreme, that long term should make society safer, to say this can not be done and should not be therefore be attempted is defeatist. In my short life there have been huge changes in attitudes in Western societies that have made them demonstrably better, why not on this ?

Regards David

avishai

There's alot more rural areas here than in Britain. You're right, I want one for protection. Where I live, the cops can't protect me in time. They are only there to do something AFTER a crime is commited, anyway, so....what else would you suggest i do?

And what Chomsky said in this instance, imo, was nonsense.

Spook

I'd love to really jump on this one, too but alas am arguing too many big issue threads to keep up with! Instead, I'll say the most intelligent argument I ever heard about this was between a skeptci and someone from the Kato institute (libertarian). It was a discussion which actually provided data regarding the "hypotheticals" on both sides.

My position is...

1. Higher standards for who can have guns. (Even the strictest libertarians rely on people being of sound mind and body - and no constitutional attorney would interpret the right as extending to everyone regardless of age or mental capacity.)

2. Regular monitoring and maintenance of licenses. Just like a drivers license, conviction of certain other crimes would result in your right being revoked and said guns confiscated.

3. Less restriction on the carrying and use of guns by those so licensed.

Really, at the end of the day, I want every "reliable" person to have a gun and I want no "unreliable" person to have a gun, and I think most could see the logic in that. It is this asessment of reliability and the control of the gun supply wherein we have the problem and conflict.

I'd also like them to be much more expensive, but that isn't particularly popular. Yet we seem to have no problem taxing the heck out of cigarettes. Really, a gun in the 18th century was much more expensive comparatively and much harder to use illicitly than it is now. Our gun problems stem from them being very effective, easy to use quckly or improperly, and relatively cheap.

read good books

To bad crazy people do crazy things with guns, however hundreds of millions of more innocent people get killed by Government than by crazed lone gunman.

As one Royal said in the eighteenth century the reason people in the United States still have morer liberties that in the rest of the world is because their citizens still have guns. Remember Jefferson's statement where the Government is afraid of it's citizens you have liberty, where citizens are afraid of the Government you have tyranny.

In 1776 the citizens defeated the most powerful tyranny in the history of the world because the citizens were armed. The founding fathers unsderstood tyrants.

It could happen again.

keyser soze

Really, at the end of the day, I want every "reliable" person to have a gun and I want no "unreliable" person to have a gun, and I think most could see the logic in that. It is this asessment of reliability and the control of the gun supply wherein we have the problem and conflict.

I agree with all your points. I do believe in gun laws to a certain extent. Anyone considering buying a gun should first know how to use one. If a test is required to drive a car, then no less should be required to obtain a firearm.

But there is simply no amount of legislation that can prevent criminals from getting guns. It is something the government can't control. Obtaining a gun illegally from a back alley dealer is no less a hassle then walking into Gander Mountain and purchasing one over the counter. Liberals can push for all the restrictions they want as long as they do so with the understanding that a)guns will be no less accessible and b)the restrictions won't have the effect they are hoping for.

beksbks

This is what you get when you mix easy access to guns, morons and blustering radio and television hatemongers whipping up the public with propaganda.

I gave up on the idea that we can take guns away from the folks that use them for violence a long time ago. But isn't there anything we can do about morons? How about the blustering, hatemongering media goons???

read good books

"I gave up on the idea that we can take guns away from the folks that use them for violence a long time ago. But isn't there anything we can do about morons? How about the blustering, hatemongering media goons???"

I assume by that you mean right wing media. But Bill Clinton tried to pin the Oklahoma City bombing on Rush Limbaugh and I believe attacks like that have pretty much been discredited.
Instead of just looking at right wing media people why not check for other common threads? Most of the Gun Violence has been perpetrated by people who had one of four things in common. They were using prescription anti depressant drugs, they plaid violent video games, they were in the Marines, they were unemployed. So why don't we ever hear about banning anti-depressants, violent video games, the Marines, or unemployment?
Why does it always come down to taking away second admenment rights or first admenment rights for gun rights proponants in the media?

beksbks

RGB, first of all, it was a joke dude, and second of all where did I mention the right wing media? I find it interesting that you recognized them from my description

If we were able to do something to curb the moron issue, the right wing talkers would fade away naturally, having no audience.

keyser soze

If we were able to do something to curb the moron issue, the right wing talkers would fade away naturally, having no audience.

We're in complete agreement on that point!

avishai

Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.

Any idea who said this?

Here comes the GUN CONTROL.

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