A New Guy from Chicago with a Story to Tell

by Reborn2002 61 Replies latest jw experiences

  • waiting
    waiting

    Welcome to our humble abode, Jason,

    My name is Jason, and I am a recovering ex-JW.
    And almost all of us are too. Several posters were never jw's....but that's ok too - open forum.

    5 languages, eh? Congratulations- I'm still doing battle with southern english. I fall into double negatives and *ain't* quite gracefully from time to time.

    With your young age and the opportunity to branch out which ever way--- why not go for your Master's Degree, perhaps Ph.d? My son is in law school, and he's not quite sure he even wants to be a lawyer after getting through half way....but it gets him further.

    It would be a chance to meet other, new people and most universities have free counceling for students. My son's taken advantage of that program for years and it's helped him tremendously....and yes, he talks about the mother/son relationship (occasionally, I've heard.)

    It's good to meet you, hope you stick around to chat?

    waiting

  • mindfield
    mindfield

    Hey there Jason! Welcome to the board, and thanx for your personal story!

    (You have a very, very nice name!!! Hint, hint...)

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    I would like to thank the multitude of replies Ive received relatively overnight. I never expected so much feedback.

    Now, COMF; to provide clarification on a few things I perhaps worded incorrectly which allowed people to see things from a perspective I did not intend.

    I stated "the story which came about" because it was a total lie, and I dont know how many people were involved. Her own family began spreading the rumor as well to try to project me as the bad guy and preserve her image "within" the congregation. Needless to say I dont know if she made it up herself or if it was with the help of her sadistic family, so I just typed "the story that came about" because it was just that, a concocted story. She did INDEED lie, and Ive no problem saying so.

    Regarding "trivial sexual details".. she went to the brothers and told them this entire story before I had first clue of what was going on. And when they finally confronted me about it and before they even bothered to hear my side of it they preferred to just interrogate me first. "Did you touch her private areas? Did you initiate intercourse? Did she resist? Was it porneia? etc etc BS." I didnt even get to tell my side before being questioned about all this sexual stuff WHICH NEVER EVEN HAPPENED. Quite frankly that really pissed me off.

    That clarify things a bit?

    Now to typecast me a "rescuer".. perhaps you should know more about the situation or the individual before being so expertly capable of categorization.

    I did not know she had family problems when we first met. Quite honestly Im sure you can admit you dont know everything about a person or their family when you first start dating.. as was the case with me here.

    In my past relationships (Worldly while I was out the first time) I did not deal with any women who had family problems, so this was a first-time experience for me. To be giving from the heart and be hurt so maliciously was an ordeal I would wish upon no person. Thast all I did.. not trying to "bypass usual courting rituals"

    Now COMF..
    "The advantage the rescuer sees in such an arrangement is that he gets to bypass the usual courting rituals and the likelihood of rejection, and jump straight into the relationship. Who's going to reject a guy who's giving them what they need? And so lovingly, self-sacrificingly, too, driving two hours in a hailstorm just to wipe her tears!"

    That was way outta line buddy. You make it sound as if you feel I was trying to take advantage of a situation, why dont you just cast a finger as well? Again, Id never dealt with any woman who had family problems like that before, so I acted from the heart and tried to help all I could, to no avail. Your certainly entitled to your opinion and to express it, but your certainly not qualified to diagnose either, and quite frankly, YOUR WRONG.

    Therapy? Ive already considered that and have recently seen a psych.. I feel like Tony Soprano almost lol. Pour out feelings about family and friends and the very strange upbringing former JW have to contend with.

    Anyway, I sincerely hope I was able to straighten a few things out here. Having someone try to label me a rescuer and perceive some things I said incorrectly was a bit troubling.

    I want to thank you guys for your sincere words of kindness and your response, it feels really good to know there are some people quite like me here.

    The true Kingdom of God is located in your heart, not an organization of hypocrites.

    www.geocities.com/latinloverchicago/Jason1.html for my new webpage and info!! Im trying to live now!!

  • zev
    zev

    jason...

    thank you for sharing such difficult things with us.

    i know its hard. but it is good to do what you did, put the thoughts and feelings into words, typed or written.

    my heart goes out to you my brother, as a man who knows the pain of the wtbts and what it can do to you.

    i have recently made changes myself.

    you may email me at the address in my profile, if you would like to talk about things.

    keep your chin up.....there is light, and the tunnel is short.
    i know. i've already passed through it.

    -Zev
    Learn about the Wtbts and the U.N.
    ** http://www.geocities.com/plowbitch69 **

  • AjaxMan
    AjaxMan

    Jason:

    Welcome!
    I am sorry about what happenned to you, but thanks for sharing your story with us.
    Now that you are free from that ungodly organization, you can start thinking for yourself, which what it should be.
    I know that it will be difficult at first, I read from others like you that went through the same path. However, get your head high and work hard to succeed. Be succesful, live well, work to strive for that and that's how you'll get back at them.
    I don't normally have net access on weekend because I am almost always out (not in FS, mind you as I am not, never was and never will be a JW), but you can email me, just click on my profile and you'll find my email. However, keep in mind that I will be slow in responding you.
    It's good that you signed up here. You can make friends here.

    Ajax

    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things and the best things never die." - The Shawshank Redemption

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    new guy from chicage, welcome to the board. It's a roller coaster here, but it can be fun at times. Many here are 'detowering' along one phase of existance or another, so you never know what responses one might get.

    I second the therapy advice, I've done it myself and have seen the good it can do. It's important tho that the counseloer at least be familiar with the damage high control mind groups can cause, and their concentric and residual effects---because if they don't understand, they can actually perpetuate the cycle!!!

    You sound fabulous..just keep on doing the good stuff. By the way, there are a whole slew of ex-jw's in your area...there are so mnay of us world-wide now (estimates are from 750,000 to 1.5 million, give or take a few hundred thousand) I think soon at this rate we will be beating each other of with sticks!!!

    Toodles...looking forward to more of your posts...and many thanks for sharing!!!

    BITE ME, WATCHTOWER!!!

  • COMF
    COMF

    Hi, Jason.

    She did INDEED lie, and Ive no problem saying so.

    Okay. As I mentioned, it was strange wording. I asked for clarification; you gave it.

    "Did you touch her private areas? Did you initiate intercourse? Did she resist? Was it porneia? etc etc BS." I didnt even get to tell my side before being questioned about all this sexual stuff WHICH NEVER EVEN HAPPENED.

    See, now, here's where it starts to break down. What kind of answers were you giving, that opened the door to the other questions? For example:

    Did you initiate intercourse? (yes, no)

    Which of the two possible answers opens the door to the next question you listed: Did she resist?

    Did you initiate intercourse? (No)
    Did she resist? (Resist what?)
    Was it porneia? (Was what porneia? The show on the TV we were watching? No, she doesn't get those channels)

    I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm just making note of inconsistencies in your story.

    Now to typecast me a "rescuer".. perhaps you should know more about the situation or the individual before being so expertly capable of categorization.

    Why don't we just have a fresh look at what I said, Jason. Here's the quote:

    From your description of the events, and your reaction, you sound like a "rescuer".

    Hmm... all I said was that, based on what I had read in your post, it was possible that you fit the "rescuer" profile. That's not the same thing as typcasting or "expert categorization." Why so defensive? You act like something struck a nerve.

    And so lovingly, self-sacrificingly, too, driving two hours in a hailstorm just to wipe her tears!"
    That was way outta line buddy. You make it sound as if you feel I was trying to take advantage of a situation

    I quoted your words. Let's have a look:

    I lovingly helped her move her furniture. She often got depressed because her sister was suicidal.. what did I do? I drove 2 hours in a hailstorm to wipe her tears. I cooked for her, cleaned, took her out... spared no expense on this woman

    If it sounds as if you were trying to take advantage of a situation, it's something that's coming through from the wording you chose.

    Your certainly entitled to your opinion and to express it

    That's generous of you, man, thanks!

    but your certainly not qualified to diagnose either, and quite frankly, YOUR WRONG.

    Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "diagnose", but I can tell you this: I'm not wrong. I'm not wrong, because I didn't state anything dogmatically. I suggested to you that you might fit this profile, and then I laid out the profile so that you would see what I meant. And I tied in some of your remarks so that you could see why I say you sound like one based on what you put in your post. That's it, and about that I am not wrong; you do sound like one. No need to get defensive about it; I know so much about rescuers because I used to do it myself, until a counselor pointed it out as a probable reason why my relationships didn't last very long and were usually frustrating while they were going on. I started watching my behavior, and sure enough, the guy was right on target.

    So, desiring to have a healthy, mature relationship built on mutual respect and attraction rather than on obligation, I started looking for women who were basically pretty stable in their lives, in their emotions, and especially in regard to their self-esteem. Here's a partial quote from a personal ad I put on a singles website a while back:

    I want a friend who is clear-eyed, perceptive and intuitive; kind-hearted, yet a straight shooter; a woman who maintains a healthy level of self-esteem without overlapping into egotism. Not needy or codependent, she manages her life well and wants a man for companionship, not to take over and relieve her of the weight of personal responsibility.

    I pointed out some inconsistencies in your story (which still are there) and made an observation intended to offer help in the event that you found it to be on target. That's all I did. Take it for what it's worth, Jason, but try to rein in that defensive streak a little, okay?

    COMF

  • VeniceIT
    VeniceIT

    ohh Comf give the guy a break what do you care???? I mean really??? No need to be so picky esp on someones first post. Where are your manners am I gonna have to come over there and teach you some ;)

    Ven

    "Injustice will continue until those who are not affected by it are as outraged as those who are."

  • COMF
    COMF

    Venice:
    No need to be so picky

    I see a need to be picky. The only thing we have on this forum is words. We don't get to watch faces or body language. We don't get to hear voice inflection. The written words alone carry the message. Now, perhaps you don't mind being deceived, but I don't like it, and when I can, I prevent it. I do it by asking questions, noting conflicting statements, drawing the person out until the picture is clearer for better or worse.

    Jason's post set off an alarm because it didn't hold together. Things he said in one place didn't fit with things he said in another place, and I had a strong sense that the story was being painted in a biased light. So, I pointed out where some (not all) of the incongruities were and asked for clarification, and I offered him some helpful advice with his relationship woes. Jason misunderstood and took it personally, so I corrected his misperception.

    What's your problem with that?

    Do you understand what the guy is saying, Vennie? He was accused of attempted rape. Now, if the girl had shown up here first, and told the story her way, would you still think the inconsistencies in this guy's story didn't matter, that noticing them was just "being picky"? Would you still want to "give the poor guy a break"? Or would you be more likely to side with her? You haven't heard her side yet, you know.

    He says he spent the night at her house, and to make herself look innocent she said he tried to rape her. I don't get it. How does that make her look innocent?

    "We heard Jason stayed at your house all night."
    "Well, yeah, he did... but he tried to rape me."
    "Oh, then it's okay... we'll go get him instead of you."

    How does that work, exactly, Vennie? Doesn't it bother you to see gaping holes in a story told by a guy who is dismissing an accusation of attempted rape as being just a concocted story? Don't the odd, incongruous questions from the elders become a little more ominous?

    COMF

  • Prisca
    Prisca

    COMF,

    I agree with Ven - give the guy a break. This is his first post, and already he has someone arguing semantics with him!

    Quite frankly, I am surprised that you are so quick to judge. After a few posts, a poster's personality and motives become evident. Maybe Jason didn't express himself effectively enough. But at least give him a chance to prove himself. If his story is not legit, it will come out in time. If it is, then you have been pretty harsh on a newbie.

    Questioning why the girl would make up a rape story shows lack of insight into the workings of the WTS.

    If a couple spend a night together under the same roof, without others there as chaperones, then they are considered to have committed immorality, whether or not sex actually happened.

    So the girl made up the story to save her own skin, because she knew that her reputation was toast after allowing Jason to spend the night at her apartment. Unfortunately that is how desperate some women are to retain their reputation in the congregation. She knew it would have been fruitless to try to convince anyone that sex didn't happen. They were dating, and for him to spend the night there would have appeared that they had slept together. To a witness mind anyway.

    The girl was a pioneer, and quite probably still a virgin, so to save her name and reputation, she made up her story.

    As to the elder's questions to Jason, since he had already left the "truth" once before, the elders could have perceived him as "tainted" anyway. Remember, in the WT world, you are guilty until proved innocent, especially in judicial matters. If I was a young brother accused of rape, and asked all sorts of intimate questions by elders, I don't think I would know how to defend myself properly either. It is a rather daunting prospect.

    I could write more, but I don't think it is necessary. The gist of my ramblings is to say that we should give newbies a chance to prove themselves, before jumping on every single sentence or phrase they use. It's a feature on this board that has increased in use, yet does nothing to promote empathy or support for our fellow friends who have also escaped the WTS.

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