A New Guy from Chicago with a Story to Tell

by Reborn2002 61 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    Reborn,

    Welcome! I'm glad you're here. I hope you learn some great things on this board as well as make some good friends. We've all been through different aspects of your experience and will relate closely to a lot of your feelings of anger and frustration.

    Please know that since many of us have been lied to for years/decades we are very careful about being tricked again. We've had many people come to this board with sob stories only to find out they were lying and either 1. wanted to mess with our minds, or 2. get donations from us. There have been other times were people come to this board with genuine heartache and terrible stories - but because of past bad experiences, some of us are a touch skeptical when details don't seem to iron out just right.

    I know COMF doesn't need me to come to his defense, but please take some time to get to know him. He has much value on this board and is a good man. I respect him deeply and look forward to his posts, as he makes me think of things from different perspectives. There is much more to him than just the posts you've witnessed. This board's diverse personalities give much more to this board than sometimes we realize. I, for one, am thankful to be here and have the acquaintence of some of these people.

    Please stick around and learn. I look forward to seeing you grow and learn!

    Andi

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    I thank you for the kind words Billygoat.

    Perhaps you are correct, and Ive only been unfortunate enough to encounter only one aspect of the man, and considering what Ive been through, I find it completely understandable for people to be skeptical. Im much more skeptical of any and all people now than I was before. Call it a true awakening.

    I find it deplorable that people would lie about things like that, but it does happen. I dont want anyone's donations, and I dont want anyone's pity either. I just dont want another honest, good-hearted person to suffer as I have suffered at the hands of a corrupt organization and its people who will chew you up and spit you out despite years of loyal service and thats not even considering the countless lies and brainwashing practices bestowed upon the masses.

    The true Kingdom of God is located in your heart, not an organization of hypocrites.

    www.geocities.com/latinloverchicago/Jason1.html for my new webpage and info!! Im trying to live now!!

  • crownboy
    crownboy

    Hi Reborn, welcome to the board.

    I enjoyed your story, it seems quite plausible. The "inconsistencies" COMF pointed out did occur to me (the fact that you spent the night despite being accused of attempted rape), but I figured you simply edited the story. Seems rather obvious: spend the night, get found out, in an attempt for poineer sister to "cover her butt" she had to come up with a story that both explained your presence as well as made her look innocent. Didn't the elders do anything to her, though? She did allow you into her house. Didn't you ever feel something wrong could happen if you two spent time together in the same room? I'll assume there was a sexual attraction, so chances were that sooner or later you two whould have started "getting it on". It doesn't say much about the pioneer sister that she would allow the possibility of such a situation to exist, so she should have been punished.

    I think COMF's main problem is that he came off as too abrasive. The exact words of his original post didn't actually contain accusations, but it sure sounded like one! To pretend that the way you word a post is not important is to be imprudent. COMF did not "season is words with salt" (to take a JWism). His posts seem like a sort of Inquisition. Such a style is appropriate (and indeed appreciated) on certain topics, but in this case COMF should have used better judgement. Sounding accusatory on someones first post (even if your not trying to be) just isn't nice.

    If you spend enough time on this board, you'll see that COMF is a good guy to makes many sage posts, but indeed his manner in which he comes accross can be blunt sometimes. But once again, welcome.

  • COMF
    COMF

    SCENE: COMF in a restaurant

    COMF: Waiter? (beckons him over) My hamburger doesn't have any meat on it.
    WAITER: Are you saying we're trying to cheat you?
    COMF: No, I'm saying my hamburger doesn't have any meat on it.
    WAITER: We don't cheat people here, sir. We are always honest. I find your suggestion offensive.
    COMF: Please pay attention to what I'm saying. I haven't mentioned cheating. I haven't mentioned dishonesty. I just want a hamburger with meat on it. Can I get that now, please?
    WAITER: (ignores COMF, says nothing)
    COMF: Okay, I'll go ask the cook for it myself...
    WAITER: You are an insulting, impolite a$$hole. The fact that you press this issue shows that you question our honesty.

  • COMF
    COMF

    COMF, you strike me as the type of a$$hole that...

    We should get this understanding at the outset, Reborn: I won't experience a millisecond of disturbance over how I strike you. I say exactly what I say. You attach all kinds of extra interpretations and assumptions to it and then get defensive at them--you own them, bro. You made them up. They're not in my words to you. What's your subconscious doing down in there?

    Lets be honest, to continue to press the issue of someone having inconsistencies is to question their honesty.

    Wrong. To be put in the position of having to press the issue; that's what calls their honesty into question. You could have simply acknowledged the points I brought out and clarified them to begin with. Then there wouldn't have been an issue to press. Why didn't you?

    To call me slow on the pickup is also an indirect insult thrust in my direction.

    No it isn't. It would be a direct insult if it wasn't true, but in your case, it appears that it is. I've said over and over and over that I'm not accusing you of anything, that I just want you to clarify the things I pointed out. It is possible to want something clarified without having any implications tied to it. You're obsessing over something I neither said nor implied, and which I have explicitly stated that I am not implying. You are, in other words, slow to pick up on the fact that no accusation against you has been made. That's no insult. Just plain old fact.

    Thank you for finally explaining. Your story makes more sense now that some of the inconsistencies have been cleared up. Of course, the detailed version brings out a lot of facts that you neglected to mention earlier: that this sleeping over was a regular practice; that you slept in her bed; that you two had been drinking that night; that she was underage. It brings a bit more color to it than that pristine knight-in-shining-armor self-portrait you painted in the original story. Not that I blame you, man; if I was 21 and in your place I'm sure something very similar would have happened.

    I dont have reason to sit here and fabricate anything on an online board.

    And upon first meeting you, we all know that this is true of you (as distinct from others who have fabricated things on the board) how, exactly?

    I came across this website with the intent of at least talking and venting, not having my integrity questioned.

    Better get used to it, son. Your integrity is going to be questioned all your life by people who don't know you. The secret to making it through is to realize and accept that nobody has any reason to trust you, and to calmly provide people with the information they need to start building a basis for trust instead of kicking up a fuss. That is, unless you don't care whether you're trusted or not, in which case why are you making all this noise in here, anyway?

    Like it or not, your statements have questioned my integrity.

    As I said above: your own fanciful additions to my words have questioned your integrity.

    I fully expect you to reply with some sarcastic remark or glaring inconsistency youve uncovered.

    Sarcasm? Possible... depends on your position, I guess. I asked some questions, and you got all huffy and indignant. Occasionally, a few of my neck hairs do stiffen at such behavior. As for inconsistencies: yeah, buddy, you are sure right there. If I found any, I would sho nuff point them out.

    Your a pretty rude guy you know that.

    Not nearly as rude as you are slow on the pickup.

    your the kind blah blah blah yakkity yakkity yak yak yak blather blather

    Whatever, man.

    either say something kind and encouraging, or say nothing at all.

    Tell you what, son... why don't you give me a demonstration of how to do that, and I'll follow your example.

    Say something nice, or shut the hell up.

    Oh! That's how you do it. Okay, I'll see if I can whip out something as good as that next chance I get.

    ---------------------------------------------------
    I find it completely understandable for people to be skeptical. Im much more skeptical of any and all people now than I was before.

    Now you're starting to get with the program.

    ---------------------------------------------------
    crownboy:
    The exact words of his original post didn't actually contain accusations, but it sure sounded like one!

    Crownboy, how many times must I explicitly state that I'm not accusing him of anything, before it becomes true?

    His posts seem like a sort of Inquisition. Such a style is appropriate (and indeed appreciated) on certain topics, but in this case COMF should have used better judgement. Sounding accusatory on someones first post (even if your not trying to be) just isn't nice.

    It depends on the content, Crownboy.

    New poster:
    APOSTATE SCUM!!! I WILL LAUF AT YUO WEN YOU'RE FLESSH ROTS OFF WILE YOUR STILL ALIFE!!! HAHAHAH!

    Singed,
    Jehovahs Toxic Angle
    (toxic to apostats that is)

    Crownboy:
    Welcome, Toxic Angel. We're glad to have you with us, and hope to read many more encouraging posts by you!

    The guy showed up in here and posted this poor-pitiful-me story, stuffed to overflowing with self-glorification, about how unjustly he was treated... and his story didn't even make sense. It still doesn't. I spoke to him in a straightforward manner, but not unkindly. I advised him of the need to set some things straight about his story. Fact is, I didn't even mention the most glaring problem in my first post; I didn't want to come down too hard on the guy.

    Speaking of which, Reborn -
    How does her accusing you of rape get her off the hook for having you guys spend the night? That still doesn't connect. What was the point of her saying that? "Yeah, he spent the night, but he tried to rape me, so that makes it okay that I let him stay over..." How does that work?

    COMF

  • one
    one

    this board is about people not strict semantic

    sometimes you do have to read "between the lines" if you want to be helpfull.

    even if you apply logic, you are not being logical if you spect a logical comment from someone not trainned to so.

    Who is being stupid, ilogical really?

    That is not even taking into consideration the writting ability of the person, that is another skill wich require practice to master.

    if you are male and married you know what i mean and what to do if you want to stay with the lady.

    i even know what my boy want to say even if said it ilogically, and does not know how to write very well yet.

    even in court the talk about the "spirit of the law", why?

  • one
    one

    in the hamburger analogy the "waiter" did not started the conversation, it may make a difference.

    it was a free meal i think, i would not complaint much

  • LoneWolf
    LoneWolf

    Hey, COMF ---

    You're all wet!

    I am a rescuer, always have been a rescuer, and always will be. I love the role. I don't ask all kinds of payback, either.

    The result was that a certain little freckle-faced girl fell in love with me due to that, we've been married 41 years and still going strong even if I am DFed and defiant about it, and she's in good standing. We have six kids and some of them are deeply in love with their rescuer type husbands too.

    'Course, it'll never last . . . . . Hehehehehehehe!!!

    LoneWolf

  • COMF
    COMF

    Hey, Wolf! Maybe you just picked the wrong girl to rescue, eh? You screwed up, man. You're supposed to pick 'em weak and helpless and lost and broke. You must have got hold of one with a solid bank of self-esteem and resourcefulness under there. No wonder it lasted!

    Congrats, no-so-much-a-loner-after-all.

    COMF

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Reborn2000,

    Firstly, let me be another to welcome you to this board. If nothing else, you'll hone your communication skills after a while here. Seriously, there are dozens of wonderful people here who can give you much in the way of comfort and advice. I'm probably not one of them.

    I find the dymanics of this thread to be fascinating, and would just like to point out a few of my own observations.

    COMF was spot-on about "rescuers." (I'm accusing NO one of being a rescuer.) I was one. A rescuer starts about by being "God" to the rescuee and can do nothing wrong. The problem with being "God" is that the whole onus of solving other's problems falls on your shoulders. I was funny. I was witty. I was clever and said intelligent things and could solve problems. I soon found out that I was expected to ALWAYS be funny, witty and to ALWAYS act intelligent and solve all problems. No human can do that. Rescuees literally suck the life right out of you and give little or nothing in return. They are like parasites feeding off someone else. When you can not perform at 100% all the time, you are resented and the rescuee feels betrayed. It is a no-win scenario.

    Reborn2000, when you related that you often spent the night at that young lady's house and often spent the night in her bed, and that she was "buzzed" the night in question, what did you expect the elders to do? Do you not know that even if you had spent ONE night on her couch in total innocence, the elders would convene a judicial hearing? It's clearly stated in WTS literature. Did you also not know that most elders DO presume guilt, not innocence? The way the WTS system is set up, they won't even convene a judicial hearing unless guilt is presumed.

    When you freely admitted you not only spent the night with her, but did so in her bed and she had been drinking, I'm not the least bit surprised they wanted to ask you every personal question in the book. Many elders get their jollies doing this, and you both gave them the perfect opportunity to do so.

    I totally agree with YoYoMama on this one: because of Watchtower Law, the elders did exactly what they were expected to do.

    Also, I'm not surprised that the elders encouraged the girl to lie about being out of town. That sort of stuff is routine in WatchtowerLand.

    Furthermore, I'm not surprised that the girl lied at all. I have several reasons for not being surprised: 1) She's only 18 or 19, yet as a pioneer has prestige in the congregation, and would lose all of that, if she couldn't find a way to weasal herself out of it and 2) there is no way you could "rescue" her from this situation.

    Rescuees have a pattern of dumping their benefactors when they perceive them to be no longer useful. Virus's do the same thing after they've destroyed their host. They just look for a new host.

    Be glad your're rid of her. She did you a favor. You're out of the Cult and you're no longer being used by a loser female.

    With regards to the issue of why she let you spend the entire night there after you tried to "rape" her: most elders are uneducated and know nothing about critical thinking. Most dubs are uneducated and know nothing about critical thinking. It doesn't surprise me in the least that a dumb dub could make up a dumb (illogical) story and dumb elders wouldn't pick up on the inconsistencies at all. After all, their religious masters do exactly the same thing in every new release of a book or a magazine they put out.

    Good luck! (Yeah, I can say that. I'm an apostate!)

    Farkel

    "I didn't mean what I meant."

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