by Stan Conroy 69 Replies latest jw friends
Well, we keep hearing what the Elders manual says....but we all know what the congregation is doing and how people are acting. The Elders I know aren't out counselling their flock and telling them NOT to shun their family members..they aren't telling them they don't have to do it and in fact, wouldn't they be obligated to tell family members they are doing the wrong thing if they do shun?
sammieswife.
Isaac
The flock book says'
"Normally a close relative would not be disfellowshiped for associating with a disfellowshiped person unless there is spiritual association or an effort made to justify or excuse the wrongful course" page 103
I guess the elders are using this to give a bit of latitude.
Your family believes they are doing the right thing. They really feel that you owe them since they are "in the truth" and you are not.
BF
Hi Sammie
The thing is, so many are getting mixed messages from this that its very confusing. One minute the JW's got strong council not to associate with DA or DF family living outside the home, the next you got the above quote in the flock book which says you can associate as long as you don't talk spiritual.
So which is it? I guess it all depends on the personalities in the BOE. If some hardline PO wants to crack the whip and guilt the relatives into shunning then thats what'll happen.
But it looks like disfellowshiping for associating with a DA/DF relative is no longer done. Well, at least according to the book.
They chucked out Ray Franz for this though, so makes you wonder how many others were DF'd before noo-lite shone.
Rennia you said:
"the bible has a few scriptures on association what they mean is again upto your viewpoint what you take from it.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you.
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Reniaa:
Why aren't you obeying the scriptures you post? By posting on JWN, you are hanging out with immoral people, idolaters, Godless people, evil Jehovah-haters, etc. I think it's very hypocritical for you to post such scriptures, agree with them, and still be here, hanging out with us evil people.
A@G
The quote from the "Flock" book isn't saying that it's ok for JWs to associate with their DF'd family. It's merely saying that this normally isn't a DF-ing offense.
If you are a JW and openly spending time with DF'd family members (for example, if you're seen eating with them at a restaurant), you are almost certainly going to be counseled for this. If you keep on doing it despite the counsel, the elders have 2 grounds to disfellowship you: (1) association with DF'd person; and (2) loose conduct. Remember that anything can become loose conduct if you are repeatedly counseled about it and are perceived to have a rebellious attitude toward the counsel.
So don't think for a minute that this is a "get out of jail free" card for JWs who want to hang out with DF'd family. Sure, if you keep it on the down-low and your elders aren't out to get you, then you are probably ok. But as soon as the elders decide to come after you about this, they can DF you in a heartbeat.
The best bet for avoiding judicial action for associating with DF'd family is to play the "essential family business" card. That is, if you are confronted about associating with a DF'd family member, tell the elder that it involved some important family business. Of course, that may be a bit hard to pull off if the association in question occurred at a pub at 1am...still worth a try though.
Let's not forget too that understanding and enforcement of these rules is not consistent throughout the organization, either by the elders or R&F members. One man's "association" is another's "family business" provided that they aren't discussing religious matters, which is what is meant by "spiritual" or "biblical" (as Reniaa puts it) matters. Most if not all elders would agree though that if these elderly parents needed to be taken to the hospital or if estate issues arose those would qualify as "family business".
Because Watchtower says so many conflicting things and the Governing Body has so many tricked into thinking that they are "God's Channel" people want to "be safe" and sometimes go beyond even the Watchtower's rules. Watchtower's Governing Body has truly confused and done much harm to so many families, creating unnatural situations in which communication is sporadic, leading to sometimes catastrophic and always sad consequences.
Isaac Carmignani
Ask Ray Franz what happens to people who associate with DFd ones. He knows first hand.
Speaking about "Excommunication", consider the following from the January 8, 1947 Awake!, pages 27, 28:
"This is "canon law" which the Roman Catholic Hierarchy seeks to enforce on the pretext that it is God's law. The authority for excommunication, they claim, is based on the teachings of Christ and the apostles... But the Hierarchy's excommunication, as a punishment and "medicinal" remedy finds no support in these scriptures. In fact, it is altogether foreign to Bible teachings... Where, then, did this practice originate? The Encyclopaedia Britannica says that papal excommunication is not without pagan influence, 'and its variations cannot be adequately explained unless account be taken of several non-Christian analogues of excommunication.' "
So in 1947, excommunication (or disfellowshipping) found no support in scripture... yet the WT now says it's OK??
"IN FACT IT IS ALTOGETHER FOREIGN TO BIBLE TEACHINGS"!!!!!!
WHAT THE.....
I can't believe they actually said that all those years ago! My God, what absolute hypocrites they are.
Nice find civicsi100
