by flipper 48 Replies latest jw friends
I really believe that most higher-ups believe it all. You just get wrapped up in it all, especially in that level. Everything else just gets in the catch-all responses of "they're imperfect men" and "wait upon Jehovah".
It's kind of like trying to argue against someone in the ministry. They are at the height of their zeal, and you likely won't get to them. Same with the higher ups. They are at their peaks, and they just swallow it all up.
I remember years ago Nathan Knorr came to Vancouver to give a talk at are assembly,
being that my father was a stage assistant I was able to sit and observe this high ranking member.
I remember how much brown nosing and ass kissing the other brothers gave this guy and I can
still remember his gleaming and put on smile he gave everyone that was around him.
I'm pretty sure he was in realization that he caught the golden ring that uplifted himself to lofty levels of personal stature.
Even then I could see a charade being pulled off.
You have to remember too that most of these GB men have being working at Bethel for years in some working position
and probably the hard and not the most pleasant ones either so climbing up to the seat of power is and was a big advantage
to them personally. When Jarcz said to an interviewer that the society does not go beyond what is written in the bible you
know he's full of shit and he's very well aware what exactly was the bullshitting that was responsible for achieving his position.
Business is business after all.
Ray Franz said they pretty much believe. They panicked when they thought some at Bethel were shaky in faith.
10% max... Movin' on!!!
Flipper - this is something hubby and I have been discussing quite a bit over the past few weeks. Especially with his brother being in the writing dept at Brooklyn. His brother has been over in Brooklyn in the writing dept for 12 years now and has done many articles for the Awake and then the WT and the last he spoke to us about it he was a compiler. He and his wife have been in Bethel (Aust) since their 20's - he's now 60 so they have seen a lot of what goes on. He is not a dumb person. So we keep asking ourselves - surely he must be able to see what a load of rubbish the WT teaching is - I mean actually being in the writing dept and having to find a way to make the WTS teaching sound believable in spite of historical evidence against it, to make sure what they are writing fits in with the numerous doctrinal changes and flip flops and is not going to get them a lawsuit - it would make anyone wonder.
But the conclusion we come to is that even if deep down they know it's rubbish - we're pretty sure he won't rock the boat. After all he is on such a good wicket. In fact 11 years ago when we asked them to keep their promise and return to Australia to help look after his mother as we were going through a very difficult time and were finding it very very hard to manage one of the things he told us as to why he wouldn't do it was because of the security for the future that they had living in Bethel. He said he knew they would be looked after when they got older and would always have somewhere to live. (By the way I wonder how many others thought that and got kicked out in the recent 'downsizing'.)
Why would they want to leave now. They have a fantastic lifestyle. He and his wife fly all over the country (USA) giving talks at conventions and assemblies, memorial talks and the like. They are treated like movie stars in a way. They travel so much they get enough frequent flyer points each year to have a free airfare back to Australia every year, where JWs climb over the top of each other to pamper them, give them handouts and tell them how wonderful they are. Where else would they get that kind of prominence and adoration?
Now this is just one couple. I imagine that this same scenario could apply to many many more. Just be a company man, toe the line and all the benefits you receive will help silence the voice inside you that knows it's all a lie. Just my take on it.
Hopscotch
Jehovah's Witnesses don't have "beliefs", they have policies. Beliefs of matters of truth, like my father was male, can't be changed by a published opinion of an anonymous writer. The Watch Tower is a business with policies to be followed by employees.
The item of "unity" is enforced unity by policy. Enforced by monitoring speech and behaviors. Violators are punished and repeat violators are fired.
All top level Witnesses agree with current policies until those policies are replaced with different policies, then they agree with the changed policies. With the Watch Tower Corporation, actually the policies are the products.
Space is rented at the Kingdom Halls and the tenants pay rent by supporting current policy and agree to work for the Watch Tower Society in exchange for approved association. It's just as simple as that.
GaryBuss said: Jehovah's Witnesses don't have "beliefs", they have policies. Beliefs of matters of truth, like my father was male, can't be changed by a published opinion of an anonymous writer. The Watch Tower is a business with policies to be followed by employees.
This is absolutely profound, Brother Buss!
I think that they are probably true believers for the most part.
BTS
I think it's like the government.
They say one thing and at one level, believe in the ideology of the party...but they admit secretly that they are just mediocre men at best and this is the manner in which they survive.
I don't think that they believe all the teachings but I do think that they believe some. I also think that in their arrogance, they ignore the pain and suffering they cause and really believe they have done nothing wrong and most may be incapable of true emotional depth which in itself is a barrier of protection. In the end, I think that most have gut feelings that some things are wrong, they question quietly and alone, but in the morning, they become shining examples of good JW's because that's all they know. It's safe. It's secure. They belong...even when they have a nagging doubt about something, or even when they fall off the religious wagon themselves..they tell themselves they are imperfect men but great followers of Jehovah..and so they stand up tall and straight and go on about their business in the small world that they have created. sammieswife.
I think they're responsibility-avoidant-mythical-pseudo-appointees who are using individually and collectively the argument used by those ultimately found guilty of war crimes at Nuremberg.
