anti Jws use the wt and awake because they are imperfect tools it is a weak point they can use to their own agenda, What happened to your love of bible scripture?
so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet?
by ninja 189 Replies latest watchtower bible
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isaacaustin
I am not supposed to respond to the stupidity spouted on this thread...so I will only comment that I am rollng on the floor laughing after the last post here. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
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Mr. Majestic
I am not supposed to respond to the stupidity spouted on this thread...so I will only comment that I am rollng on the floor laughing after the last post here. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
Told you so.......lol
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Leolaia
Since my last post was ignored, I thought it would be good to restate one of the quotations and discuss it in further detail:
*** w35 2/15 pp. 51-52 Jehovah's Battle — Part 4 ***
JEHOVAH causes men to have dreams or visions and in this way speaks to men and causes them to understand. Jehovah's devoted people now having his expression of will set forth in the Scriptures do not need to be informed by means of dreams, but that is no reason to say that God cannot do so if such should be his will. In the earlier days of men Jehovah did speak to those devoted to him by way of dreams or visions and thus instructed them....
Jehovah now discloses to the faithful remnant, who are with the Greater Gideon, what first must come to pass in the great day of God Almighty, and this he does for their encouragement and comfort and that their hope might be strengthened. Then the Lord used a second man to speak prophetic words there in the hearing of Gideon. "And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel: for into his hand hath God delivered Midian, and all the host." (Judg. 7:14) That man described as the 'fellow' of the other man, being also of the enemy's army, would not be speaking willingly as the mouthpiece of Jehovah God, hence his words show that he was merely an automaton to give utterance to what God had caused to be injected into his mind and which God would have Gideon now to hear. That 'fellow' had no ability to interpret prophecy, but Jehovah's angel moved his lips to speak the interpretation. Is The Watchtower a means or channel employed by God to transmit information to his people? If God could use and did use one a stranger to Him, and one in the enemy’s camp, then with stronger reasoning he could and would transmit information to his people by that which is devoted to his service. In 1927 God began to reveal to his people the meaning of the dream had by Nebuchadnezzar. Thereafter, in August 1930, by and through the columns of The Watchtower God caused to be published the proper understanding of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar. As stepping stones gradually leading up to the understanding of the great image was the publication of the articles in The Watchtower to wit, 'The Winepress', September 1, 1926; 'The Stone in Zion', October 15, 1926. No man can properly interpret prophecy, and the Lord sends his angels to transmit correct information to his people, and when these truths come to his people and the facts fit the prophecy, then they should take it as from the Lord and receive it with rejoicing.
Here Rutherford was directly comparing the publication of Watchtower articles to the prophetic dreams and interpretations thereof that Midianite enemies of Gideon received from God in Judges 7:9-15. "If God could use and did use one a stranger to Him, and one in the enemy's camp, then with stronger reasoning he could and would transmit information to his people by that which is devoted to his service". Jehovah thus takes a direct part in the publication of articles in the Watchtower, "by and through the columns of The Watchtower God caused to be published the proper understanding" of Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 2. Just as Jehovah spoke to Nebuchadnezzar through a dream, so he uses the Watchtower to give its proper interpretation. Here the comparison with the Midianite soldier is most clear; Rutherford writes that "No man can properly interpret prophecy, and the Lord sends his angels to transmit correct information to his people". Notice what he is saying. What is written in the Watchtower is not the result of imperfect men interpreting prophecy, for no man can properly interpret prophecy. The interpretation, like the prophecy itself, comes directly from God. Notice that the same thing is said of the Midianite interpreter of the prophetic dream given to his fellow: "That 'fellow' had no ability to interpret prophecy, but Jehovah's angel moved his lips to speak the interpretation". The interpretation comes straight from Jehovah himself. This belies the statement from the 1993 Awake! that "Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah' ". That is utterly false. Right here Rutherford says that although what the Watchtower publishes is not prophecy per se, but interpretations thereof, the words are Jehovah's words in the same way that Jehovah's angel moved the lips of soldier to speak the interpretation. Again, with respect to the Midianite interpreter, "he was merely an automaton to give utterance to what God has caused to be injected into his mind". "That 'fellow' had no ability to interpret prophecy,' just as in the case of the Watchtower "no man can properly interpret prophecy" — the interpretations come from Jehovah himself. And so when the Watchtower publishes a prophetic interpretation, Jehovah's people "should take it as from the Lord and receive it with rejoicing".
And by the way, the Society has abandoned Rutherford's 1930 interpretation of Daniel 2. In fact, the article referred to here specifically rejected the prophetic understanding that the Society currently holds:
*** w30 8/1 pp. 229-230 A Great Image — Part 1 ***
More than fifty years ago some good, honest Christian people who were called Adventists published an interpretation of the foregoing prophecy of Daniel which in substance states that the terrible image that Daniel saw represented the successive world powers, to wit, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome; that the golden head of the image represented Babylon, the breast of silver represented or pictured the Medo-Persian empire; that the copper (mistranslated brass) pictured the Grecian world power; and the legs of iron pictured the Pagan Roman world power; and the feet composed of iron and clay pictured Papal Rome or what is otherwise called the "Holy Roman Empire". The Watch Tower publications, having no better explanation, practically adopted the forgoing interpretation. There are some good reasons why the above interpretation of the prophecy is not correct, and these are, to wit:
[Summarized as follows: (1) The Watchtower could not have had the proper understanding before 1918 when the "Lord came into his Temple", (2) The image was broken at the same time whereas the world powers of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome did not co-exist at the same time, (3) Nebuchadnezzar did not have power over the beasts and everything under creation, (4) The Medo-Persian empire did not have anything of value like silver that was greater in worth than the bronze of Greece, the more powerful kingdom, (5) Rome was not the first empire that had military power to bruise the peoples of the earth.]
The image about which Nebuchadnezzar dreamed was a terrible one. What could it picture? In order to enable the student to follow the argument here set forth it is now here briefly stated that the terrible image represented Satan's organization, both visible and invisible....When the Lord came to his temple in 1918 greater light began to shine into the mind of each one of his devoted ones who have been brought into the temple. It was about 1925 that the faithful discerned the fact that the kingdom had begun and that Satan had been cast out of heaven and now must confine his operations to the earth....It therefore seems to be impossible that even the anointed of the Lord could have had a proper conception of the 'terrible image' of Daniel until after the coming of the Lord to his temple. Furthermore, the Scriptures positively state that greater light shines upon God’s people at the end of the world.
*** w30 8/1 pp. 243 A Great Image — Part 2 ***
JEHOVAH holds all of his secrets until his due time to make them known to his Creatures. Without doubt he caused Nebuchadnezzar to have the dream and also that he had Daniel his beloved prophet at hand to make known the dream to the king....Since Daniel represented the remnant of Christ on earth immediately preceding Armageddon, it is certain that the proper understanding of the image is to enlighten the remnant and to encourage the members thereof to press the battle now against the enemy. Until God's anointed had a clearer vision of the two great organizations it was impossible to see and appreciate the meaning of this prophecy. Thanks be to God, the due time has now come.
In Daniel 2:31, 32, the statement is made that the image was of great brightness, excellent and terrible, and that the head was of fine gold, the breast and arms of silver, and the belly and thighs of copper (mistranslated "brass"). The image was great and terrible because it was in opposition to Jehovah and was the picture of complete wickedness. The image pictured Satan's organization, of which the wicked one is the head....Gold is the only appropriate metal that could represent the head of that organization at the time it was created....Nebuchadnezzar, being the king of Babylon at the time of his dream, pictured Satan, the real head of the organization....Therefore the description of the head of the image fits Satan exactly as the "head of gold"....
The invisible princes or rulers in Satan's organization are shown as a part of the terrible image; and as silver and copper are inferior or next in order to gold, therefore the image shows that, instead of these representing world powers, they represent lower orders than Lucifer in the great organization. Until 1914 Satan was seated "in the sides of the north", where he had fixed a throne, with his deputy rulers with him. (Rev. 12:3-7) These latter, named and symbolized by silver, doubtless did not come directly in contact with the nations of the earth, but that duty was assigned and is assigned to the company of wicked angels pictured by copper....
The legs support and bear up the man. The legs are beneath the head of the man and carry the man about. The legs of the image therefore represent the inferior and visible parts of Satan's organization under the head, but which support the head and act in obedience to the head....This part of the image pictures the world powers, every one of them, beginning with Egypt to the present day, all of which are of Satan's organization. From the time of Egypt until now these world powers have oppressed and bruised and broken in pieces the people. There is no exception whatsoever to this rule.
That is the "new light" that Jehovah sent his angels to transmit to his organization to publish. It was "by and through the columns of The Watchtower God caused to be published the proper understanding of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar", the interpretation in the very articles quoted right here. Nothing like this is accepted today by Jehovah's Witnesses as Bible truth. In fact, they have gone back to the same old understanding that God supposedly informed Rutherford was incorrect. Either it was the right understanding or it was not. Rutherford implies that he "was merely an automaton to give utterance to what God had caused to be injected into his mind". Rutherford himself "had no ability to interpret prophecy", by his own admission "no man can properly interpret prophecy"; the interpretation was from Jehovah God himself. So why did the organization reject what God revealed to his people? Maybe God changed his mind. Maybe God has no clue what his own prophecies mean. Maybe God is completely unreliable in what he tells his mouthpiece. Or instead maybe Rutherford was presumptuously claiming inspiration for his own false biblical interpretations. If the interpretations in the 1930 Watchtower were really from God, as Rutherford claimed, then why have they since been rejected?
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isaacaustin
see Mr Majestic- YOU prophecied- and it came true! lol
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passwordprotected
Oh dear, Reniaa is tackling iknowall.
This isn't going to end well.
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undercover
see Mr Majestic- YOU prophecied- and it came true!
Well, he is Jesus after all...
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Mr. Majestic
see Mr Majestic- YOU prophecied- and it came true! lol
Yeah…..!! But don’t be too impressed….
It still doesn’t qualify me as a ‘prophet’…..apparently…!!
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passwordprotected
@ Mr Majestic;
Yeah…..!! But don’t be too impressed….
It still doesn’t qualify me as a ‘prophet’…..apparently…!!
As long as you didn't publish it in an uninspired printed publication.
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isaacaustin
and dont shun me if I diasgree with you :)