by ninja 189 Replies latest watchtower bible
it was my annoying monster in law who started all this......she said on monday to my brother in law....."you missed a really good talk at the
hall....brother reid proved that Jehovah's witnesses weren't false prophets as apostates claim....we've never claimed to be inspired".......obviously
knowing he would tell me this.......and also knowing she doesn't need to talk directly to me to annoy me..........grrrrrr.....
Reniaa said earlier:
...if no-one can bring any scriptures to the table on dates other than the ones that clearly show it isn't forbidden...
Are you actually saying that if it is not specifically forbidden by the Bible then it is ok to do? I smell a whiff of hypocrisy that the WT will try hard to diminish the significance of one passage about false prohets while arbitrarily magnifying another about eating blood.
Reniaa also says above:
Iknowall you continue to say putting dates on actual bible prophecy is prophecy in itself when the scripture you use don't say this lets take them all shall we?
The Duet verses say: "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name ANYTHING I have not commanded him to say..." This means anything! It excludes NOTHING!
I may not be able to play scriptural ping pong as well as some, but something Reniaa said a couple of pages back made me think
"The breaking point is when you no longer accept refinement and teach things contrary to bible teachings buying into the delusion/lie that the majority of christendom now follows contrary to bible teachings in so many ways."
That comment about refinement was something my Mom would always use to prove that JWs have the truth. It always bothered me because, why would God use deception and/or outright lies to "test" his people? In my mind, that would make God anything but loving.
Reniaa, I don't know you, as I haven't been posting very long, but it seems to me, that you are unwilling to respond to specific questions. You also equated the Watchtower and Awake to "tools". If I were to build a structure, based in a set of plans, and if my "tools" were not right, say my tape measure is off by an inch, the building won't match the plans. Should that be the customers fault because they aren't satisfied? Would the fault lie with the architect? No, it would be the builders fault for misreading the plans, however good his intentions were.
As many others keep pointing out, that verse in Deut. is pretty cut and dried.
It amazes me I fell for this B.S.
Good analogy, Jack.
hi Jack
I have limited time on the forums these days so I just go on in between life stuff, it means I tend to clump similar issue into one response for instance you talk about the wt as a few have recently.
What does it mean to prove something imperfect is imperfect?
whether you are looking at imperfect men or imperfect tools like the wt and other publications because you are looking for imperfections you will certainly find them. Your analogy doesn't work becasue we know we are already working with imperfect tools before even starting, or do you think we are perfect already?
Only Jesus could withstand as a perfect man that sort of perusal and even then as with the pharasees they painted him by their own imperfection.
If you had been there then would you have known when he said eat my flesh etc he was speaking figuratively not literally? to this day catholics treat it as literal.
Why do we have the bible?
Why do we have holy spirit?
they are there to guide us but we still live in imperfection.
this is why you find I tend to ignore anti-witness bumf on wt's etc they are deliberately using an imperfect tool knowing imperfection will be found especially as time goes by.
You say we shouldn't need refinement why would you assume that? the bible is clear we are constantly needing refinement until we gain perfection? you make a statement that confuses me.
why would God use deception and/or outright lies to "test" his people? In my mind, that would make God anything but loving
why would refinement mean Jehovah deliberately made us do the wrong choices? Holy spirit guides us but it is clear from adam onwards that we can still reject it and go our own way in judgement and opinion. Prophets like moses made clear mistakes but by your viewpoint he should never have sinned that way.
Jeremiah 9:7
Therefore this is what the LORD Almighty says: "See, I will refine and test them, for what else can I do because of the sin of my people?
And do you want an even clearer scripture spelling it out?
Daniel 11:35
Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.
1 Peter 1:7
These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.
these are not scriptures showing we will have it right but clearly showing refinement will be needed right to the end, your being unbiblical by expecting anything different.
I chose a religion that is clearly listening to holy spirit in these times allowing itself to be refined, I don't thing christendom is able to throw off the delusion anymore they are too mired in idolatry and Jesus worship to be able too.
I think Jehovah's witnesses have more refinement ahead but thats what I would expect in our imperfect condition.
Being eager and putting dates on ACTUAL bible prophecy for me isn't even in the same league as new christian religions growing from christendom that are claiming their own unbiblical prophecies that actually are prophecy and miracles and signs with charassmatic leaders calling themselves Jesus christ etc from my biblical research they have more to worry about concerning false prophecy.
Ninja - - Yeah I heard about that talk, the bro. spoke about how some have left in the past because nothing happened on certain dates and how these ones were causing dissension (?) ...........dont think he used any of the above mentioned scriptures, pretty sure of that, but he went on to say that there were so many JWs in the world now , round about 7million, so this proves we have God's backing and are part of the true religion......
Good to see you back posting, have been thinking bout you and Denise today. x
Reniaa - - Like i've already said............... and please prove me wrong...
Biblical prophets perhaps did make mistakes.......BUT THEY DID NOT MAKE MISTAKES WHEN THEY WERE PROPHESYING. No genuine biblical example of an 'error' can be found in the prophecies of any TRUE prophet of God. Like I said.....100% success rate!
The topic is FALSE PROPHECY....
IS THIS YOU ADMITTING THAT THE ORG. IS WRONG THEN BY ATTATCHING DATES TO BIBLICAL PROPHECIES..... although you excuse it as eagerness...funny, the org. does that too.
You said.......
"Being eager and putting dates on ACTUAL bible prophecy for me isn't even in the same league as new christian religions growing from christendom that are claiming their own unbiblical prophecies that actually are prophecy and miracles and signs with charassmatic leaders calling themselves Jesus christ etc from my biblical research they have more to worry about concerning false prophecy."
And also, shades of the org........ when you are backed into a corner, you then highlight the faults of everyone else and say they are in a worse position.........IT DOESN'T EXCUSE WHAT YOUR ORG. HAVE DONE. THEY WILL STILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. THEY HAVE STILL GONE AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD.
They would be sooooo proud of you.........
Iknowall you say it yourself clearly....
Biblical prophets perhaps did make mistakes.......BUT THEY DID NOT MAKE MISTAKES WHEN THEY WERE PROPHESYING. No genuine biblical example of an 'error' can be found in the prophecies of any TRUE prophet of God. Like I said.....100% success rate - iknowall
trying to place dates on inspired bible prophecy is not prophecy! foolish mistake but not prophecy. Jw's have never claimed the inspiration.
Reniaa-
I almost don't know how to respond to you. How can you say that setting dates for future events is not prophecying? Being so certain about things, as the society is, implies that they have a special channel to God? Isn't that the same as being inspired?
Also, how can you call what the WTS does "refinement"?
Does it bother you that they are only "refined" AFTER they are backed into a corner?
It also seems to me that if the WTs is not inspired, the teachings can't be called The Truth. If you want to follow their teachings, go ahead, but not being inspired makes them opinions. How then, can you criticize other views in "christendom" if what you are following are opinions?
One other thing, JWs hide behind the "imperfection" thing. You can't have it both ways. I get really annoyed with people who use that argument, and then go on to claim that these "imperfect" men are the only ones in the world who know the Truth! How does this imperfect organization get it's information? If the GB is not inspired, anything they teach should be questioned right? Go to one of the local elders with this question like I did.
Let me know how that goes for you.
I was told - about 3 years ago - by a JW who claimed to be 'of the anointed' that the Anointed all possess 'gifts'. He went on to tell me that some had the gift to HEAL, some the gift of PROPHESY and his was the gift of INTERPRETATION. Delusional.
