so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet? (page 16)

undercover

trying to place dates on inspired bible prophecy is not prophecy!

According to the Society it is...and that's what's key in the issue. Your definition, or my definition, doesn't matter. It's their own definition that has to be applied.

Watchtower May 15 1984

Just as Jesus' prophecies regarding Jerusalem were fulfilled within the life span of the generation of the year 33 C.E., so his prophecies regarding "the time of the end" will be fulfilled within the life span of the generation of 1914.

True the Society did not proclaim this as their own prophecy, but they did claim it as prophecy. It doesn't matter who uttered it - the WT Society, as the self-proclaimed channel of Jehovah God, pointed to it and called it prophecy. A prophecy that would not fail. Now, you may point to the fact that Jesus never said anything about 1914 and that the Society's interpretation of Jesus' prophesy as incorrect but the fact remains that they published the "generation of 1914" not dying off as a prophecy.

The fact that they intrepreted it wrong makes them utterers of false prophecy, by their own definition, because they advertised it as prophecy. They proclaimed it as prophecy, it failed, they retracted, they were wrong, they are guilty.

You can delude yourself all you want, but the facts speak for themselves.

steve2

It's clear that there are genuine differences of point of view on this thread, but I like the way posters whose views differ from others are doing their best to stick to the topic without becoming personal. I'm really enjoying following the discussion.

iknowall558

Reniaa - - - What claim have the org. made ?

The WT has made the claim to be GOD'S PROPHET on earth numerous times.

WT 15th Jan 1959, pag 40 - 41

WT 1st Aug 1971, pg 466

WT 1st April 1972, pg 200

WT 1st Sept 1979, pg 29

WT 1st Oct 1982 pg 27

Also, they claim to have spoken in HIS NAME (deut 18).......WT 1st sept, 1979 says this : -

"For nearly 60 years now the Jeremiah Class has faithfully spoken forth Jehovah's word........unlike the clergy class, those of the Jeremiah Class have been sent by Jehovah

to SPEAK IN HIS NAME . Nevertheless, the clergy prophets also claim to speak in his name and, hence, to tell Bible truth........True, the Jeremiah Class back up their

message by quoting the words, "THIS IS WHAT JEHOVAH HAS SAID".

Have they backed this statement up in any way..........YES.

WT 1st Nov 1931, pg 327 -- No mans opinion is expressed in the Watchtower.

WT 1st Dec 1933, pg 363 -- The Lord has used the Watchtower.

WT 1st Jan 1942, pg 5 -- If this is the opinion of man then you shouldn't read it. WT 1st Feb 1931, pg 47 -- Speaking of the 'Light' book, they say it is Jehovah's inspired volume....it is the work of the Lord....it's beyond human....it's divine.

Still want to say they have NEVER claimed to be inspired ?

How should they be viewed by God based on the claims they have made ? (deut 18)

Remember the pastor who prohesied the end?.............He was called a False Prophet ! Remeber the 1968 Awake? "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date........The 'end ' did not come. They were guilty of FALSE PROPHESYING........

They are the mirror image of those they condemn......They claim all this authority to themselves and claim to be a prophet. How many examples are necessary to prove a point ? How many failed predictions and changes in God - given "due time" interpretations are necessary to question the credibility of their claims ? What does their record show ? Can the WT really escape the implications of their words ?

hamsterbait

The statements that vaccination, transplants, the use of blood fractions,alternative national service, are wrong, is prophesying - because they are speaking as 'god's representative.

The statement that the annointed were no longer gathered after 1935, the sheep and goats, condemnation of other religions for joining the UN as NGOs these too are prophesying according to the definition of it in the Book study this week.

The fact that all these things have been abandoned or CHANGED shows that these examples of prophesying are FALSE - otherwise they would not have needed to change.

Telling people that God views them as unclean because they masturbate is also under this yet the word never occurs in the Bible.

The defintion of porneia in the 70s led to many divorces, because of what they taught (remember teaching is prophesying) Yet this too was changed and abandoned.

FALSE teaching = FALSE prophecy under the definition given in the Insight book quoted above.

HB

Jack Burton

noun, plural -cies.

1.	the foretelling or prediction of what is to come.

2.	something that is declared by a prophet, esp. a divinely inspired prediction, instruction, or exhortation.

3.	a divinely inspired utterance or revelation: oracular prophecies.

4.	the action, function, or faculty of a prophet

I found this definition of prophecy online. There isn't much wiggle room here.

Sounds like setting dates would fit the definition of predicting what is to come.

Following the logic, if someone who claims some special insight into the Bible, claims something specific will happen on a certain date, and it doesn't happen, that person would be a false prophet.

Reniaa, tell me where my logic is off, what am I missing here?

(I can't believe I've gotten hooked into one of these discussions, and I only started posting a couple of weeks ago!)

Mad Dawg

The refining in the Scripture Reniaa quotes has nothing to do with refining the prophets' message. IT IS ABOUT REFINING THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES!! THEY HAVE NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH PROPHETS !! *wipes brow and straightens tie* Reniaa, if you are going to quote scripture, at least check out the context and quote the whole verse. Do you think that you can be honest enough to do that?

While you are at it, could you explain what "Spirit directed" means - from the Scriptures?

Hobo Ken

> Reniaa

There is a part of my post which you totally ignored, which completely closes the book on your pathetic attempt to defend, explain and condone the actions of the watchtower society.

I will post it again for your convenience or should that be inconvenience?

Hayden Covington the Watchtower Society's vice president said UNDER OATH in court the following:-

Q. That was the publication of false prophesy?

A. That was the publication of a false prophesy, it was a false statement or an erronious statement in fulfilment of a prophesy that was false or erroneous.

Q. Back to the point now. A false prophesy was promulgated?

A. I agree that.

THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY ADMITTED THEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS!!!!!!!!..............HELLO...........END OF ARGUMENT............

Don't even bother to come on here and post a reply if you are not honest enough to admit that you are plainly wrong.

We all know that you have a life choice to defend and that's why you come on here and defend your leaders but since you are in an indefensible position why not try going on a thread you can actually win?

Matt.

androb31

Another educational moment by, you guessed it.....Reniaa

She said:

"If you had been there then would you have known when he said eat my flesh etc he was speaking figuratively not literally? to this day catholics treat it as literal."

Then she asked:

"Why do we have the bible?"

Ahem.....That would be the Catholics Reniaa, they canonized it in about the 4th century.

Then...

"Why do we have holy spirit?"

Sorry to be so blunt, but apparently you don't, you have the uninspired Governing Body to give you the pressure "beyond what is normal".

whatcanIsay

Still they can not prove from the bible; Gentile times ended or Jesus was Heavenly enthroned in 1914! That is false prophesy and doctrines.

so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet?

BonaFide