by allelsefails 421 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Mad Dawg,
By the Wt standards I can be a true prophet by saying that Scholar will provide oyu with proof of this by 8/1/09. And when he fails to do so I can turn around and say that I rpedicted something would happen relative to scholar answering you...I was waiting but just didn't have the clearest of knowledge. As of 8/1/09 Scholar did not answer you...thus I am a true prophet. LOL
Mary
Post 10666
Oh Mary, Sweet Mary! You really contribute dribble. The fact is that Daniel 4 along with the entire book of Daniel is about God's Kingdom which is set against the historic intervention of Nebuchadnezzer with the typical Kingdom of Judah. He was shown the present and future reality of God's Sovereignty expressed by that Kingdom. One does not need any Bible aids to understand this theme which is easily seen from both a casual and critical reading of Daniel 4..
It is for others to judge whether Alan F or scholar has won the argument but that is not the point for scholar is not about point scoring but simply in making an apology or defence of our Bible-based chronology.
The entire chapter of Daniel 4 resonates with a lesson that Nebuchadnezzer had to learn and that is that God's Kingdom is beyond and above all other earthly kings-rulers and kingdoms and that God alone exercises complete sovereignty over mankind. That is the lesson sweet Mary, Oh Sweet Mary.
The mention of God's Kingdom which scholar has forced you to focus on is an exeghetical key to the understanding of the dream and scholar can not be accused of twisting anything for there is nothing to twist. The dream or vision is about rulership and kingdom with its surative aspect of times or as the Master described it as the Gentile Times.- Luke 21;24.
May the entertainment continue. Oh Sweet Mary!
scholar JW
alleldefsails
Post 68
Pastor Russell as guided by the 'celebrated WT scholars' of the day used the best scholarship of the day and as scholarship has progressed then adjustments to our understanding of the Bible increased. Chronology has always been a work in progress from the time of James Ussher so it is to expected that 'fine tuning' occurs. I hope this helps.
scholar JW
Barefoot Servant
Post 70
You need to distinguish between God's Sovereignty and God's Kingdom. Both of these terms are explicitly and implicitly stated in this entire chapter. God has the right to rule and the power to rule as Nebuchadnezzer was made to learn during the course of seven years of banishment and the time of God directly exercising his rulership by means of an installed Kingdom after the expiration of 'seven times' was also demonstarted and is in harmony with the entire book of Daniel.
scholar JW
Barefoot Servant
Post 70
There is very little 'wiggle room' in our chronology but more so in the history behind certain key dates but there is nothing we can do about that but for the apostates the problem is much greater because they use a chronology which has more than a 'wiggle' but 'gaps'- huge 'gaps' of at least twenty years. So I suggest that you get your own house in order before riculing anothers.
Honesty compells one to conclude that 538 BCE is highly improbable or impossible unless some speedy form of transport was undertaken. The more reasonable, rational approach is to weigh up all of the known scriptural, historical facts and add a little commonsense and Bingo! you have 537 BCE. Nice and Easy.
The methodology of calculating 1914 CE has remained unchanged only minor technical matters have intervened in making the 607/1914 scenario irrefutable despite the spurious nonsense of apostates.
scholar JW
isaac austin
Post 1393
In Daniel 4 we have texts that use an expression that relates to God's Kingdom and these verses are as follows:VERSE 3, verse 17, verse 25, verse 22 and verse 34.
Then we have the expression 'times' as found in verses 16, 23, and 25 which are explained as appointed or definite times or time periods which clearly indicate something beyond a literal seven years.
Thes two basic facts are sre sufficient proof of the matter
scholar JW
Scholar! Wait! Before you run off again, please oh please oh please oh please explain how you can show from the Bible ONLY, that Jerusalem fell 607 years before the common era. You have a start by showing that the exiles returned 70 years later. Can you establish that the return was 537 years before the common era using only the Bible? PLEASE?
Scholar droned (yet again): The fact is that Daniel 4 along with the entire book of Daniel is about God's Kingdom which is set against the historic intervention of Nebuchadnezzer with the typical Kingdom of Judah. He was shown the present and future reality of God's Sovereignty expressed by that Kingdom. One does not need any Bible aids to understand this theme which is easily seen from both a casual and critical reading of Daniel 4.
As per usual, 'scholar', you are giving your own very narrow interpretation of the chapter in question and attempting to put it off as "fact" when it is nothing of the kind. We are not talking about "the entire book of Daniel"----we are talking about Daniel chapter 4 where YOU claim that it has a 'second fulfillment' even though there is absolutely nothing in the entire chapter to indicate that. The 'seven times' clearly is referring to the "seven years" Nebuchadnezzar went insane----nothing more, nothing less. There is absolutely nothing there that infers that there is a second fulfillment. There's no reference to the "Gentile Times", no reference to the Last Days, Jesus or 1914. It is all based upon absolutely nothing except the Watchtower's very vivid imagination.
You can offer absolutely no evidence whatsoever 'scholar' to prove otherwise.
The entire chapter of Daniel 4 resonates with a lesson that Nebuchadnezzer had to learn and that is that God's Kingdom is beyond and above all other earthly kings-rulers and kingdoms and that God alone exercises complete sovereignty over mankind. That is the lesson sweet Mary, Oh Sweet Mary.
Exactly. In laymans term, Nebuchadnezzar needed to be taken down a peg or two to show him who was boss. And this is exactly what happened. And at the end of the 'seven times', a more humble Nebuchadnezzar had his kingdom restored to him and that's the end of the story. Nothing there that even hints that the story means anything else.
The mention of God's Kingdom which scholar has forced you to focus on is an exeghetical key to the understanding of the dream and scholar can not be accused of twisting anything for there is nothing to twist.
Then why do you continuously do it?
The dream or vision is about rulership and kingdom with its surative aspect of times or as the Master described it as the Gentile Times.- Luke 21;24.
I was wondering how long it would take you to try wiggling Luke 21 in here. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said that you are guilty of selective readings. There is nothing, nothing, nothing to link Luke 21 with Daniel 4 except your preconceived ideas that you were taught as a Dub. Luke 21:24 is talking about a completely different event duffus. It's talking about the destruction of Jerusalem itself. Jesus said "...they will fall by the edge of the sword and Jerusalem will be (not 'will continue to be) trampled on by the nations until the Gentile Times are fulfilled." It was a future event you moron, not a past event. Jesus was referring to a Roman conquest, not a Babylonian one. Of course, that's never stopped the Craptower from literally adding to the scriptures in order to try and promote their own warped view of 'truth' as is demonstrated in their own literature:
"While giving his sign, Jesus spoke of the "seven times," calling them "the appointed times of the nations." He said: "Jerusalem will [continue to] be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled."----November 1, 1986 Watchtower pp. 5-6 A Dream Reveals How Late It Is
Hmmm.....what fate awaits those who 'add to the scriptures'???
May the entertainment continue. Oh Sweet Mary!
Believe me scholar, as long as you continue to post your ridiculous assertions on here, the entertainment will never fail.....
What a stroker. 
"scholar" writes:
The clincher for such an approved methodology is the fact that the Gentile Times expired in 1914 CE based upon the scholarly determined 607-537 BCE scenario.
The "Gentile Times" did not expire in 1914.
The non-fulfillment of Russell's "expectations" "prove[d] [Russell's] chronology wrong.
The non-fulfillment of Russell's "expectations" "work[ed] irreparable wreck to ... the epoch called 'Gentile Times'...
But let us suppose a case far from our expectations: Suppose that A.D. 1915 should pass with the world's affairs all serene and with evidence that the "very elect" had not all been "changed" and without the restoration of natural Israel to favor under the New Covenant.(Rom. 11:12,15.) What then? Would not that prove our chronology wrong? Yes, surely! And would not that prove a keen disappointment? Indeed it would! It would work irreparable wreck tothe Parallel dispensations and Israel's Double, and to the Jubilee calculations, and to the prophecy of the 2300 days of Daniel, and to the epoch called "Gentile Times," and to the 1260, 1290 and 1335 days, the latter of which marking the beginning of the Harvest so well fulfilled its prediction, "Oh, the blessedness of him that waiteth and cometh unto the 1335 days!" None of these would be available longer. What a blow that would be! One of the strings of our "harp" would be quite broken! Watch Tower Reprints, p.5368 (December, 1913)
Excellent find bennyk. Of course, pseudo-scholar will simply ignore the facts in favor of his fables.
