Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

by Tuesday 347 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  isaacaustin

  (isaacaustin you keep saying 'Father' 'Son' are just positional definitions with trinity so when Jesus says 'The father is greater than I' he is just stating the position of father is greater than he is. this is the scripture which I thinkrefutes this simply becaseu of God's words to Jesus, these are not the words of a postion but the words of a True Father in it's fullest sense.)

  My reply: Reniaa, scripture defines the terms as such. You misunderstand the use of the term son as its meaning of identity in the Jewish culture.
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  Chalam

  OK I have posted this type of thing before but here goes.

  The Trinity.

  1.The Father is God.

  I think we agree on that :)

  2. The Holy Spirit is God.

  Romans 8:9 (New International Version)

  9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.

  Notice in this verse that the Spirit Of God is alive, not an impersonal "active force". Also, that the Holy Spirit is "of God".

  Romans 8:9 (New International Version)

  ... And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

  Now the Holy Spirit is immediately described as Jesus' Spirit. By logic, Jesus must also be God. Must be some verses for that?

  3. Jesus is God

  John 1:1 (New International Version)

  1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

  Matthew 1:23 (New International Version)

  23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"—which means, "God with us."

  Notice how Immanuel means God with us, not "a god with us" or anything else.

  John 20:28 (New International Version)

  28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

  In similar fashion, neither does Thomas say "a lord and a god".

  Revelation 1:8 (New International Version)

  8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

  Neither does this verse say "a lord" or "a god".

  OK, this should wrap the whole thing up :)

  John 10:30 (New International Version)

  30 I and the Father are one."

  John 14:8-9 (New International Version)

  8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

  9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

  Philip asks Jesus about the Father and Jesus answers in first person and says "don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?"!

  If Jesus and the Father are not one then Jesus' statement is a lie and He a deceiver.

  As it is, I believe Jesus and the Father are one and He is my Lord and my God.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  isaacaustin

  Exactly Chalam. The NWT is alone in 'the word was a god'. Reniaa's comment about the NWT coming out tasty and delicious was a bit premature on her part. After I finished puking over that statement...I thought about how the WT tries to pretend to be experts on the Greek and claim the absence of the definite article for the second occurence of theos when experts agree that the presence of the first also refers to the 2nd. Sorry Reniaa, but the NWT comes out like a rancid pice of meat here.
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  wobble

  I feel that this argument has been done to death long ago, no greek scholar disputes that in John 1v1 John is explaining the divine nature of the Word.

  Not saying that He was God the Father. But as Chalam and many others have shown, the bulk of the NT attests that Jesus is YHWH.

  So why get stuck on one verse, read the NT with an open mind, not influenced by WT thinking, and then get to know not only who the Lord God Almighty is, but what His love can do for you.

  Love

  Wobble
• 

  StAnn

  MrRay, I was addressing my comment to Reniaa. And her confusion and delusion at the hands of the WTS is such that prayer is the best option for her (IMO). For someone who believes in a god, as Reniaa does, perhaps intervention from God in helping her in her confusion would be the most effective way for her to resolve this. Debating scripture with her is obviously useless, as she is still in the defensive JW cult mindset.

  Regarding your comments that I'm either arrogrant or ignorant, I've been called worse. Fire away.

  St. Ann
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  StAnn

  PP, btw, did I ever tell you that my husband's religion professor at university was one of the translators of the NIV? Some of the OT books. The NIV Study Bible was the first Bible my husband ever read cover-to-cover.

  St. Ann
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  donny

  If all of this bickering proves anything beyond a doubt, it is that the Bible is not as clear as some believe regarding the nature of Jesus. As someone who is no longer committed to either side, I can see bothe sides of the arguments have merit. If the Trinity was as important a doctrine as some insist, then the writers did not do a very good job at getting their point across because the Bible definitely presents both sides which is why this debate has raged on since nearly the beginning of Christianity.

  Don
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  reniaa

  /sigh call me crazy but I want to have a bible translation as near to the original inspired word as possible, maybe going with the majority vote for the last 1700 years is right for some but for me I value truth above conformity.

  Reniaa
• 

  mkr32208

  The bible can be used to prove the trinity AND the disprove the trinity. The reason is simple. Almost all of the writers of the bible had different views on it. That's because the bible was a book written by MEN for MEN. All this seamless miraculous blah blah blah is just friggin bullcrap, it's a HORRIBLE edited POS...
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  Chalam

  I want to have a bible translation as near to the original inspired word as possible

  I agree!

  Also, I am thankful the Holy Spirit bring me revelation when I read the bible.

  1 Corinthians 2:14 (New International Version)

  14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

  All the best,

  Stephen