Marry Christmas Jan-evolution goes down in flames

by clash_city_rockers 75 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Escargot

  clash_city_rockers
  : Hang in there man, give it right back to them! All they come up with is name calling. Shows their hand!
• 

  Farkel

  Abaddon,

  I corrected a minor "typo" of yours:

  : Clash has studiously avoided answering certain questions, whereas each point he has made has been refuted. This behaviour is typical of creationists cretins; not all, but many.

  Farkel

  "I didn't mean what I meant."
• 

  Julie

  :JanH also likes to twist the words and meanings of what people say around which is typical of an abuser and controller.

  KSJordan, care to provide any examples of this baseless accusation? I'd be interested in seeing such.

  Julie
• 

  clash_city_rockers

  Abaddon whining: snip
  "In this, an essay on Johnson's book, there are links to four web pages where Johnson or other creationists make their claims. Funny how creationists hide the evidence their opponents put forth and evolutionists publish it. How ... honest ... good to know the 'truth' has nothing to hide, eh?"

  Response: The Evedence is damming against your position. Playing the silly game of poisoning the well will not help your cause.
  Also, Evedenses Are never nutral. The massinve truck loads of evedences we christians have will not chainge your hard heart, only Christ and His gosple can. That's why I go after your unbelieving presupostions, hence my apologetic method is presupositional. You, being an antagonist to the bible and the christian gospel have no real defence against presupositional apologetics, in fact this is probly the first time you faced a presupositionalist. On top of that I'm getting tons of emails that are thanking me and are giving testamony that I'm whiping your guys tail around the internet. To that, it has been a privalage to be an encouragement to many of you who did not give up on God and the Bible and Christianity just because they where burned by the WT.

  In the end evolution is a moral issue. Those who espouse such a lie, at the heart of that is not a pure scientific pursure, many of you, like rem and others could give a Damn about science. No, at the end of it all you just want to justify lawlessness and evil. do you think we would want you to baby sit our kids, HECK no you evolutionist might molest and murder our kids. According to you if thier is no God then it stands to reason by good and nessesary consocunce that there is no absolute standers for Law and morality, hence laws are just convention and killing, murder, robbing and molesting and raping are not real evils because there really isn't any real (absolute) standard for good or evil.

  cheers,
  jr
• 

  mommy

  Hey Clash,
  I just had to jump in here and comment on that last paragraph. I am an atheist and I do not molest children, I have 2 children of my own, and another on the way. To assume that I would create such an act because of not believing what you believe is assanine.

  You also said

  According to you if thier is no God then it stands to reason by good and nessesary consocunce that there is no absolute standers for Law and morality, hence laws are just convention and killing, murder, robbing and molesting and raping are not real evils because there really isn't any real (absolute) standard for good or evil.

  I have to disagree with this as well. I have morals, and I follow them, I have never murdered, robbed, molested, or raped another human, and I have no plans to do so in the future. I will also say that even though good and evil are not clearly defined, I do have my guidleines I follow. I think even you can agree that everyones definition of evil is different. Don't believe me, take a poll, see what others think is the worst evil, you will recieve different answers I am sure.

  You are misguided in your ideas, but I do not blame you. I forgive you for your ignorance, see I was once like you
  wendy

  When I leave, you will know I have been here
• 

  mommy

  I forgot to wish Jan a MARRY Christmas!
  wendy

  When I leave, you will know I have been here
• 

  mommy

  Sorry I thought I was done, but I am back Clash, how many christians have commited those crimes you mentioned? I wonder how many are now sitting in jail confident they are going to heaven, or their afterlife of choice. See a christian has the ability to repent, they commit a crime, feel bad, repent and Viola they are saved again. How many times can they get away with that?

  Please don't feed me that only god can read hearts, because if that was true then it really doesn't matter if we believe in him or not. Because a good person is a good person, no matter what they believe in. And if god is so loving and understanding then he will understand why a person cannot believe in the handed down stories about him.

  Okay I think I am done now
  wendy

  When I leave, you will know I have been here
• 

  D wiltshire

  I have to agree we can't impute bad motives for those who don't beleive in God.
  And neither can we impute bad motives for those the do beleive.
  No man know's for sure what other people motives are.
  We need to avoid being opinionated.
  To make such generalities is not in harmony with the complicated nature of man.

  Jesus cautioned his followers to be on guard against jugdementalism.

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  funkyderek

  Clash,

  If you're going to be a presuppositionalist - by definition an illogical stance - at least learn to spell the word. While you're at it, run all your posts through a spell checker. I appreciate English is obviously not your first language but when every second word is spelt incorrectly, it makes your posts very dificult to read. Admittedly, this would matter more if there was any meaningful content in any of your posts. They seem to be filled with nonsense which has just occurred to you. If that's what you believe, fair enough. You don't want to listen to any evidence or even to defend your position by debating properly with those who challenge it (which makes posting on a public board something of a waste of time - yours and other people's) but don't compound the embarrassment people feel for you by mis-spelling everything.

  --
  "The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794.
• 

  Abaddon

  clash: much as I'd love to treat you in a similar fashion to the way you treat people, I'm not going to lower myself

  Response: The Evedence is damming against your position.

  WHAT evidence? You have cited none, other than silly creationist books that are no evidence for anything due to the errors and poor scholarship that they display.

  Cite the evidence. Refute the arguements. Stop your pointless posturing; everyone can see you are refusing to engage in the debate, you fool no one, except maybe yourself.

  Playing the silly game of poisoning the well will not help your cause.

  Ah, so if I point out creationist sites don't link to evolutionist sites, but that evolutionist sites DO link to creationist sites, you, AGAIN, do not answer the question, but start making baseless accusations. Something to hide?

  Also, Evedenses Are never nutral. The massinve truck loads of evedences we christians have will not chainge your hard heart, only Christ and His gosple can.

  Clash, is your eyesight bad? WHAT EVIDENCE. Every 'arguement' you have made against evolution has been shown to be a misconseption, a distortion, an error, or in some other way WRONG. Maybe it is not my 'hard heart' (please read James sometime, you seem to need to correct your viewpoint to a more Christian one). Maybe you are wrong; remember, you have not, since coming here, done anything other than prove your lack of knowledge about evolution. So don't bring my heart into this... and that's a warning...

  That's why I go after your unbelieving presupostions,

  By 'go after' I take it you mean 'blabber endlessly and prove nothing'.

  ... hence my apologetic method is presupositional

  So, you assume there is a god, and that because you suppode there is a god, then it is so, and that any evidence to the contrary is false, yet you cannot prove there is a god, but you need not prove it, because you are right any way. That is what a presuppositionalist is, isn't it?

  I do not agree that I am a presuppositionalist. I do not suppose there is no god. On the basis that things that 'are' or things that 'were' tend to leave evidence, I assume that if there was a god there would logically be evidence, and find there is no evidence, but find there is every evidence for life having evolved. That does not make me a presuppositionalist. I find that extensive examination of philosophy or apologetics just brings me out in a rash, so I don't know exactly what you would describe that as, although it's probably scientific rationalism. So, either prove that I am a presuppostionalist, or don't lie about me. If you lie, we will know who your father is.

  You, being an antagonist to the bible and the christian gospel have no real defence against presupositional apologetics, in fact this is probly the first time you faced a presupositionalist.

  Clash, a school of apologetics which consists of assuming there is a god, and refusing to alter this opinion no matter what, is not something that you can defend yourself against.

  Say your presuppositionalist stance was that that your yellow car was blue. I could line up every other single member of the world's population to disagree with you, perform every scientific test known to man to provide evidence, argue until the Universe died, and you would still insist that your yellow car was blue.

  Facing a presuppositionalist is best compared to standing two foot in front of a brickwall, facing it, leaning back as far as you can before over-balancing, and then using every muscle in your body to whip forwards so your head hits the wall as hard as possible, and repeating this for infinity.

  This does not mean that being a presuppositionalist is a good thing; a presuppositionalist would argue he was not on fire when he was, if his presuppositon was that he was not on fire. Presuppositionalism is the refuge for those who want to believe something no matter what. I hope you are happy in your intellectually bankrupt little refuge. I shudder to think of the initiating mental factors in taking up such a holoow philosophy.

  Thus, to you, the fact you have failed, at every point, to make a case for evolution being wrong, and not even MADE a case for the Bible being right, does not matter. You are right anyway, no matter what. God could appear to you tomorrow and tell you that you were full of shit, and you would not alter your beliefs one iota.

  It seems that I am not the only person who thinks presuppostionalists are a waste of space;

  http://www.americancatholictruthsociety.com/cathapol/nsagots.htm

  This quote from the above seemed especially appropriate;

  ...some heavy "dodging" techniques utilized by the Calvinist challengers. It seems when they got cornered, they changed the subject or started cracking jokes - just about anything to derail the discussion

  Now starts the unsupported boasting;

  On top of that I'm getting tons of emails that are thanking me and are giving testamony that I'm whiping your guys tail around the internet.

  Yes, to a presuppositionalist, I suppose by insisting you are right and providing no facts to support this, you are fighting the good fight. Wow, moral highground... NOT!

  Frankly I do not care if every presuppostionalist in the world agrees with you; it's the dumbest and lamest school of apologetics possible. It is a mental attitude that is highly damaging to society; it doesn't matter who holds it or what they believe, as a mental attitude it was and is the cause of hideous bloodshed all over the world. You are rubbing shoulders with the Spanish Inquisition, Witch Trials, Communism, with every petty psychopath that ever killed someone because they thought they were right, and didn't care that it could be proved they were wrong.

  You gonna tell us what you think of homosexuals? Single mothers? Show us how wonderful it is to be a presuppositionalist.

  To that, it has been a privalage to be an encouragement to many of you who did not give up on God and the Bible and Christianity just because they where burned by the WT.

  Wrong, again, but it doesn't matter to you when you are wrong because you are still right!! I don't believe in god for reasons entirely unconnected with the WTBTS or because of evolution (as belief in god and evolution are not mutually exclusive), I don;t believe in god because there is no evidence. So, please do not repeat this falsehood about me again.

  In the end evolution is a moral issue.

  Wrong again, as if that matters to you. Morals has nothing to do with evolution.

  Those who espouse such a lie, at the heart of that is not a pure scientific pursure, many of you, like rem and others could give a Damn about science. No, at the end of it all you just want to justify lawlessness and evil.

  Ah, now we see your true colours... now you start slandering, which is funny... look at Merriam-Websters;

  Word: Devil
  Function: noun
  Etymology: Middle English devel, from Old English dEofol, from Late Latin diabolus, from Greek diabolos, literally, slanderer, from diaballein to throw across, slander, from dia- + ballein to throw; probably akin to Sanskrit gurate he lifts up
  Date: before 12th century

  You, without any evidence, imply that believers in evolution are intrinsicly evil; that's slander... and if you lie, we know who your father really is... disguising himself as an angel of light again...

  do you think we would want you to baby sit our kids, HECK no you evolutionist might molest and murder our kids.

  I am pretty sure, if you look at the statistics, you will find that the numbers of religious people who are creationists, the numbers of religious people who are not creationists, and the number of atheists in jail for child abuse, are proportional to the numbers of such people in the population as a whole. Thus you lie again! There is no proven link between not beliving in god and being a sex offender. In fact, believers in god in postions of authority are prominent in the hall of infamy of sex offenders. Also, many paedophiles will believe, no matter what evidence that you might present them, that they are right to do what they do, that the children 'want' it. They are being presuppositional in their logic. Still proud of being a presuppositionalist?

  According to you if thier is no God then it stands to reason by good and nessesary consocunce that there is no absolute standers for Law and morality, hence laws are just convention and killing, murder, robbing and molesting and raping are not real evils because there really isn't any real (absolute) standard for good or evil.

  Your logic is twisted and peverted. Indeed, there is philosophical debate over the meaning of good and evil, and the relative and subjective natures of such terms, but find me one person engaging in those debates who will say that abusing children is not bad. As you will not be able to find such a person, YOU LIE AGAIN

  Clash, I have met good Christians and bad Christians. I have met smart Christians and dumb Christians. I have met educated Christians and uneducated Christians. I have met nice Christians and nasty Christians.

  I have never met a Christian who nauseates me like you. You make me sad. I want to go outside and take a few deep breaths to clean out my lungs of the nasty funk that your thoughts leave there.

  It actually makes me angry, that someone can take the message that Jesus gave and twist it into a peverted doctrine idolising ignorance and hatred of humans who do not conform to a narrow way of unarguable self-determined rightness. I actually, if I was a religious person, would consider your view of god as blasphemous. There is more than enough fear in the world without conceiving god as something to fear. God is about love, if there is one, and you have truely strained out the gnat and swallowed the camel, and lost sight of what is important. Your conception of god is so petty and human as to defy belief. I really feel sorry for you.

  I won't bother asking the questions I've asked you again; you are incapable of answering them, or unwilling, and quite probably both. Everyone can see the only answer you have is either evasion or insults.

  The evidence is there for all to read. You cannot prove your case to anyone but yourself and similarly blinded followers of a dead-end school of apologetics. Everyone else can see that you cannot prove your case, and that you will resort to unsupportable attacks on the other party when the going gets too tough.

  <edited for typos>

  People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...