Marry Christmas Jan-evolution goes down in flames (page 7)

SixofNine

Hey clash, when God is described in the Bible as commiting moral evil, what does that do to your "dielectical tention" meter?

Not much, I suspect, as you are just not that evolved.

funkyderek

Hey clash, when God is described in the Bible as commiting moral evil, what does that do to your "dielectical tention" meter?

But according to clash, God can't commit moral evil because the source of all morality is God. If God lies, tortures or murders people or allows or commands his people to do the same, that must be moral. For the more evolved, morality is based on reason and concern for other people. Unfortunately, some people seem unable to understand that and therefore behave in immoral ways, for example shunning "apostates", condemning homosexuals, flying planes into skyscrapers etc.

--
"The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794.

D wiltshire

Sixof nine,

What is EVIL?
Who defines what is truly Evil?

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

SixofNine

According to clash, the bible writers defined evil, D wiltshire. They didn't do a very good job, for thinking people, but then again...

D wiltshire

But I asked you these questions.

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

cellomould

It's time to pick on the Creationist-Christian-Moralist rather than on Mommy or others who disagree with that standpoint.

Well, okay I'll not pick on anyone personally, but rather pick your brains with difficult questions (mostly rhetorical of course):

1. Why is Evolution 'immoral'?

I have read lots of arguments that try to tear down evolution morally. Very few there are that do not resort to emotionally charged moral pleas. As in "that couldn't be the way things came about because it's just not right!" Well, is it not moral, or not correct?

I would never be so ignorant as to argue for the morality of evolution, natural selection, etc... that would be incredibly pointless. But if the phrase 'it happened for no reason in an amoral universe' makes you ill, don't hate people who can accept it.

2. Why is Christianity, or as was stated by Clash, "The Christian World View...the only world view can provide the intelectual [sic](logical and epistomological--how we know what we know) answers to give a reason why there is an absolute standard for ethics and morals"?

Have you really investigated other paradigms if you believe this statement? Upon what do you base this callous assertion? Upon what you feel? (e.g. that 'Muslims are just not right'?) Could you possibly point out some of the particular strengths/weaknesses of specific 'worldviews'?

And does it matter? What is even so scary about living without a 'worldview'? It is more like an affliction than a cure to be trapped in a state of perpetual 'righteousness'.

3. Which are more numerous, murderous atheist fanatics or murderous zealous fanatics? The answer is quite obvious. (Of course the typical reply would include shots at a few groups of agitators, such as Islamic terrorists, who are non-Christian, and therefore just as 'wrong' as atheists.)

I have never heard of anyone killing or commiting other crimes because it was 'neither the right nor the wrong thing to do.'

Ideology is hateful.

Lack of ideology, however, at least provides the basis for acceptance and tolerance, if not peace and tranquility.

Merry Christmas,

cello

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

mommy

Clash,
I must tell you the reason I responded to you was because you are lumping atheist into a box, and I wanted to give you a personal view on being an atheist. I insist that you stop claiming that because I am atheist I now have a brotherhood of athesist and I must conform to all of their ideas and views. This is just not the case, as I tried to point out to you. There are but a few things I will comment on, then I am bowing out of this discussion, it seems ridiculous to give you personal info, and spending so much time responding for you to ignore it.

You said:

You can not explain why we should not commit acts of moral evil and yet at the same time hold on to the athiest dogma of moral relitivism.

I am assuming you meant "relativism" Here is where you made the mistake of not reading my post. I have stated that there is no clear definition for evil, you did not refute that, and cannot refute that. You stated that god is the originator of the moral code, and anything he says goes, so to speak. If this is so would you kill if god told you to kill? Why is there accounts in the bible of humans questioning god's moral decisions? You did not answer those questions for me yet. You cannot answer those questions, because if you do then you debunk your own ideas on god having a "code" at all. It is self refuting to say that god has a moral code, but you would abanddon that code if god told you to. In essence there is no "code" just a man in charge who has whims that may change at any time. And you are to blindly follow getting whatever new info god wants to shed to you and what you should be doing that day.

You said:

The Christian World View is the only world view can provide the intelectual (logical and epistomological--how we know what we know)
answers to give a reason why there is an absolute standard for ethics and morals.

Again I have a question for you. Is christianity the only "religion" that appears to answer this question? What of the other religions that do not believe in Christ, yet have attempted to answer this question?

You said:

Q1: where you raised a Jehovahs Witness? if so then you where not raised a christian, because Jehovahs Witnesses is not Christianity.

Yes I was raised a JW, and I won't even touch your last comment, I have not the time today. I left the JW's at 18 and became involved in other religions, including but not limited to: Mormons, Lutherans, Protestants, and non denominational churches, for the next 8 years, I remained a christian.

Q1: I'm just trying to apply YOUR athistic world view and go consistanly to its logical conclusion. So then why go through all the self-bashing and being so hard on yourself? If there is no Absolute moral standard then why go through all the fuss.

I was trying to point out to you, I am my own absolute standard. You and I have the same person to answer to, and live with day in and day out, ourself. Yes you may feel guilt if you go against your god, but ultimatly you are your own worst enemy.

As your people would say "hey, relax a little, take it easy, smoke a few joints. There is no God so there is nothing to worry about"

Again you are assuiming, I have "people" and my "people" are the only ones on the planet that smoke a joint. Again I forgive you for your ignorance

One more thing. Wendy you wished me a Marry Christmas.

Actually I wished you a Merry Christmas

Why, if you are an athiest and don't believe in Jesus are into Christmas. Christmas is suppose to be about the birth of Christ(whom you dont believe). Are you contradicting yourself or just living off the fruits of the christian? Why celabrate the birth of a potental enemy(one who will send you to hell)? Is in it more consistant to say happy winter solstus?

I celebrate christmas, so I can give my children a childhood that is consistent with the rest of the other children. I do not celebrate christmas to celebrate anyones birth. This is where you are again assuming, and not knowing anything about me. Happy winter Solstice? Nah, I won't jump on that bandwagon either, because someone feels I have no right to say Merry Christmas.

Could you imagen your kids comming to you and saying "mommy why do we celabrate christmas when we are athiest and don't believe in Christ?" "Please be consistant mommy"

Again, you assume because I am an atheist, that I raise my children to be atheist. As a matter of fact, I am raising my children to be their own individual. If they choose to follow christianity then they can follow christianity, I will not stop them. I have told them that there are many religions out there, and many different beliefs. It is up to them to decide which road they will take. Perhaps your children(if and when you have them) will question you one day as to why they cannot believe in soemthing different than you. Will you provide for your children an open minded approach to other religions? Will you allow them to decide for themselves what religion they will follow? Just from your comments here, I am assuming you cannot. Because you cannot look past the little box you have wrapped in front of you. I do hope that you realize one day

Wendy, I have looked at some of your other post and think your a cool person so please dont take offence. I am praying for you...

Thanks I am sure that you praying makes you feel better, so go for it! Have a good day
wendy

When I leave, you will know I have been here

D wiltshire

How about it anybody? 6of9 doesn't want to answer these questions so anybody want to try:

What is EVIL?
Who defines what is truly Evil?

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

SixofNine

Just because I don't hop back into a conversation doesn't mean "I don't want to answer the questions", D wiltshire.

If you are over 12, you know that that is not an easy question to answer. Since it is a concept, rather than a thing, there is no clean "wrap it up, I'll take it" answer.

I'll go ahead and attempt an answer however: Evil = really really bad stuff.

D wiltshire

6of9,

You are just being humble, come on tell us.

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

Marry Christmas Jan-evolution goes down in flames

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