Jesus.....God or God's son? (page 3)

isaacaustin

Renia:

Prov 8:

1

1 Does not Wisdom call, and Understanding raise her voice?

If wisdom is Jesus who is understanding?

12

"I, Wisdom, dwell with experience, and judicious knowledge I attain.

Who is experience and judicious knowledge?

29

When he set for the sea its limit, so that the waters should not transgress his command;

30

8 Then was I beside him as his craftsman, and I was his delight day by day, Playing before him all the while,

If this is Jesus it would contradict Isaiah where God says he created the earth alone, without a helper.

sacolton

Oh, Reniaa ... let's look at the full scripture of Matthew 7:21-23 ...

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?

23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Pay attention to the part in verse 22 ... "Did we not prophesy in your name ..." What organization has made many false prophecies in the name of God? The same organization that claims to be the MOUTHPIECE of God ... or God's visible organization on Earth? Claiming they were "uninspired" prophets? Yes! They always have and they still do. They usually prefer to spell "prophet" as "God's only visible channel of communication on Earth", but it means the same thing either way it's spelled.

They do admit that they are not inspired prophets, not the sort of prophets who truthfully speak for God with 100% accuracy. Of course, you may be aware of what the Bible calls a "prophet" who claims to speak for God, but without inspiration, without truth, without 100% accuracy.

The Bible calls people like that false prophets.

You don't want to be associated with a false prophet when judgment day comes around. I advise you not to associate with any false prophets, including the leadership of the Jehovah's Witness religion. Just stay away from them. Don't say you weren't warned. They presume to speak for God, but have been forced by multiple false prophecies to admit that God has not inspired them. Which, although they do NOT admit to this fact, means that God has not sent them, God is not speaking through them, they are not God's only visible channel of communication on Earth.

Examine:

The Watchtower, "Blessings or Maledictions—There Is a Choice!", June 15th, 1996, p. 13, par. 7.

7 The main reason for the jeering seems to have been that Elisha was wearing Elijah’s familiar official garment, and the children did not want any successor of that prophet around. (2 Kings 2:13) To answer the challenge of his being Elijah’s successor and to teach these young people and their parents proper respect for Jehovah’s prophet, Elisha called down evil upon the jeering mob in the name of Elijah’s God. Jehovah manifested his approval of Elisha as his prophet by causing the two she-bears to come out of the woods and tear to pieces 42 of those mockers. Jehovah dealt decisively because of their blatant lack of respect for the channel of communication that he was using on earth at that time.

Do you see that? Elisha = Jehovah's prophet = the channel of communication that Jehovah was using on earth.

Where does the Society get its message and authority from? They claim both come directly from Jehovah. Why? Because unlike anyone else on the planet, they alone "have been sent by Jehovah to speak in his name"! Is that true? Is that false? Never mind for the moment what they are saying about the Bible, or how they word it. Who sent them?

The JW leadership claims to speak from Jehovah himself, giving Jehovah's own personal interpretation of the Bible. What others claim is not relevant, not important, and cannot help you.

They either speak for Jehovah and are sent by Jehovah, or not. If so, they must be prophets of Jehovah, and they must be inspired. By definition. If not, they are at best just one more religious group claiming to be Christian, with not one speck more authority than you have or I have. At worst, they are liars and false prophets, and will meet the same fate as all liars and false prophets.

undercover

...if as much information was given to support the Trinity as the Virgin Birth...

Both beliefs rely on scant information provided in an ancient manuscript. No real evidence exists for either. So why accept one but not the other? Why accept either?

snowbird

Faith in one, skepticism in the other.

Why?

That's how I roll.

Sylvia

glenster

What I have on that is on pp.4 and 7 to 10 of "Glenster's Guide to GTJ
Brooklyn."
http://www.freewebs.com/glenster1/gtjbrooklynindex.htm

While I'm waiting to finish building a new PC to play "GTA IV," I've also
added a lot of games to the "Free PC pinball...." page, too.

restrangled

I do not believe in the trinity, and those that do that's your choice.

The one thing that strikes me is at Mat. 27:46 after 9 hours of torture he calls out....'.My God, my God, why have your forsaken me?' (NWT 1984)

In verse 43: 'He has put his trust in God; let Him now rescue him if He wants him, for he said, 'I am God's Son' (NWT 1984)

So what was happening? In the throes of death he was calling upon 1/3 of himself? 2/3's?

Why would God put himself at the mercy of his own creation? Sounds like the Frankenstein story.

I am no JW apologist, just can't buy into the trinity.

r.

leavingwt

So what was happening? In the throes of death he was calling upon 1/3 of himself? 2/3's?

The Trinity is that there are three distinct persons.

By definition, then, he was at no time calling upon "himself", but upon [God] the Father, a different person.

PSacramento

The doctrin of the Trinity doesn't say that jesus is 1/3 of God, but that God minifests himself completely in Jesus as well as the Holy Spirit.

Think One God, 3 "manifestations".

restrangled

Just a question...if there were 3 manifistations all of equal power and status, why couldn't Christ save himself? Why would he be praying to someone who had held the same position and power he did?

Why would he refer to someone as his Father and himself as the "Son?" (That infers a definate Hierarchy)....Father and son are never equal.

So what is this relationship according to the trinity? Equal but seperate? Which re-introduces the question why would he be praying to someone of the same power to save himself?

r.

leavingwt

someone who had held the same position

According to the Trinity doctrine, The Father's position (office) is greater than that of Jesus, while Jesus was on Earth.

Jesus.....God or God's son?

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