The WT contradict the bible they quote in the very next sentence regarding "JWs"!

by Chalam 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Chalam

  Spike T-Again the NWT has correctly translated Ecclesiastes 9:6, as follows:— Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.

  NWT does not look any different and I see no different explanation. The NWT still is saying the dead will no longer see the sun or be conscious of anything done under it.

  The bible says there is no sun in the new heavens to light up the new earth Revelation 21:23 and obviously the sun does not shine in the grave or the second death.

  Here's another version, nice and easy to understand!

  Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 (English Standard Version)

  5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  Spike Tassel

  Other Bible translations and versions are onside with the NWT, against the common view of Luke 23:43. Read on …

  A. J Holman Company's 1968 edition of George M. Lamsa's the New Testament (according to the Eastern Text translated from Original Aramaic Sources) gives Luke 23: 42-43 as follows:— (v.42) And he said to Jesus, Remember me, my Lord, when you come into your kingdom. (v.43) Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you today, You will be with me in Paradise.

  the Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1977, based on the 1976 Rotherham Version) gives Luke 23:42-43 as follows, similar in pattern to the NWT:— (v.42) And he went on to say, YAHSHUA! remember me, whensoever Thou shalt come into Thy Kingdom. (v.43) And He said unto him, Verily I say unto thee this day: With Me shalt thou be in Paradise.

  in quite a different, yet equivalent dissenting position, A.B. Traina's 1980 revision of the Holy Name Bible renders Luke 23:42-43 as follows:— (v.42) And he said unto Yahshua, Rabbi, remember me when Thou comest into Thy Kingdom. (v.43) And Yahshua said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, in that day thou shalt be with Me in the glory.

  And again, Jack J. Blanco's 1990 the New Testament (a devotional paraphrase to stimulate faith and growth) is useful, as well. There, Luke 23:42-43 reads this way:— (v.42) Then he turned to Jesus and said, "Lord, I believe in you! Please, don't forget me when you set up your kingdom." (v.43) Jesus turned His head toward him and said, "This is the day of our death, but I'm promising you that you will live again and be with me when I set up my kingdom."
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  Spike Tassel

  My point regarding the NWT's take of Ecclesiastes 9:6 is the use of the phrase "anymore to time indefinite", as opposed to "never again" [NIV] or "forever they have no more share" [English Standard Version, which you have also quoted from]. Obviously, with an earthy resurrection [Psalm 37:29], "anymore to time indefinite" means "anymore until resurrection".
• 

  Chalam

  "Other Bible translations and versions are onside with the NWT"

  Many more are against the NWT view

  Luke 23:43 (New International Version)

  43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

  Luke 23:43 (New American Standard Bible)

  43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in ( A ) Paradise."

  Luke 23:43 (The Message)

  43 He said, "Don't worry, I will. Today you will join me in paradise."

  Luke 23:43 (Amplified Bible)

  43 And He answered him, Truly I tell you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.

  Luke 23:43 (New Living Translation)

  43 And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

  Luke 23:43 (King James Version)

  43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

  Luke 23:43 (English Standard Version)

  43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in ( A ) Paradise."

  Luke 23:43 (Contemporary English Version)

  43 Jesus replied, "I promise that today you will be with me in paradise." [ a ]

  Footnotes:

  1. Luke 23:43 paradise: In the Greek translation of the Old Testament, this word is used for the Garden of Eden. In New Testament times it was sometimes used for the place where God's people are happy and at rest, as they wait for the final judgment.

  Luke 23:43 (New King James Version)

  43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

  Luke 23:43 (New Century Version)

  43 Jesus said to him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." [ a ]

  Luke 23:43 (21st Century King James Version)

  43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with Me in Paradise."

  Luke 23:43 (American Standard Version)

  43 And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.

  Luke 23:43 (Young's Literal Translation)

  43 and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'

  Luke 23:43 (Darby Translation)

  43 And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

  Luke 23:43 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

  43 And He said to him, " I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise." ( A )

  Luke 23:43 (New International Reader's Version)

  43 Jesus answered him, "What I'm about to tell you is true. Today you will be with me in paradise."

  Luke 23:43 (Wycliffe New Testament)

  43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.

  Luke 23:43 (Worldwide English (New Testament))

  43 And Jesus said to him, `I tell you the truth. Today you will be with me in God's garden of paradise.'

  Luke 23:43 (New International Version - UK)

  43 Jesus answered him, I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.

  Luke 23:43 (Today's New International Version)

  43 Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  Chalam

  As there is no punctuation in the greek, we have two things to tell us where the comma goes.

  1. Grammar. The NWT follow the grammatical pattern of putting the comma directly after "you" in every other occasion it occurs save the Luke 23:43 verse! Check for yourself.

  2. Doctrine. What does the doctrine say? More importantly, what does the rest of the bible say on the matter? Does it agree with the words of Jesus with the comma before or after today?

  Here's a start.

  2 Corinthians 5:6-8 (King James Version)

  6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

  7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

  8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

  The thief who died with Jesus soon was "absent from his body" James 2:26 and present with Jesus. This agrees with the comma directly after "truth"in Luke 23:43, same as every version I just posted about. The NWT rendering of the same verse contradicts its own grammatical rules and 2 Corinthians 5 (amongst others).

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  oompa

  Chalam...i still want my back fixed by a dub or ANYONE with this powerful Holy Spirit!.......it supposedly can do all sorts of great things/works....that would definitely help me and many many others believe in it and god......why in the world would god use it like that in Jesus day and shortly thereafter and then take it away only to be "felt inside us"........that is lame and can not be proven.....like an invisible return of jesus.......all these "unseen" aspects of god does not help his credibility imo.........oompa
• 

  Chalam

  Hi oompa,

  I agree! You aren't going to find any miracles, "signs and wonders" amongst the JWs because they don't believe in them. However, there are millions of us who do :)

  Even Jesus agrees with your viewpoint

  John 14:11 (New International Version)

  11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

  John 14:12 (New International Version)

  12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

  Mark 16:17-18 (New International Version)

  17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

  You can receive healing right where you are. However, it is good to have faith in the room with you and also those with the gift 1 Corinthians 12:9 1 Corinthians 12:28 1 Corinthians 12:30 so they can lay hands on you and pray.

  Anyhow, check our Jason, he agrees too :)

  Jason Westerfield Healing Bus Fare Lady

  All the best,

  Stephen