A little advice needed on disassociating myself

by MisfitMeL 46 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Damocles

  Misfitmel

  One thing to keep in mind is that you are dealing with two distinct, separate issues that ought not to be confused.

  The first is your religous beliefs or the lack thereof. Frankly, that is a very personal matter that we may or may not chose to share with others, even our parents, but it is very much our choice.

  The second is boundaries in the relationship with your mother.

  I'd say you need to get the second right before you even begin to consider the first.

  Don't start off talking about your ideas on religion, start off discussing whether you have a right to your own opinions. Establish a level of respect for each others ideas before any discussions begin.

  I had a boss who would randomly decide to micromanage an operation. He was authoritative and aggressive, but often right. I was responsible for designing a new laboratory and in a meeting we me and my direct boss, he wanted to pass judgements on my decisions. My first question to him was "Who decides? You or me?" Boy, did the sparks fly. But we established that he did not want to be involved in every little minor decision and that he would have to trust me. Once done, he was pleased with the result. Lesson being that we could not have an intelligent discussion until we had the roles established.

  Establish the boundaries with your mom, then get to the religion. But if she won't accept the boundaries, any discussion is doomed to frustration and probably anger on both sides. That would be unfortunate. Sounds like you two need each other.

  Best Regards

  Damocles
• 

  SnakesInTheTower

  misfitmel...

  So you are going back to India? I fully understand that you cannot stay in UK because of visa issues. India is probably one of the best places to go to and get lost when it comes to JWs. I wish you well finding a different country to live.

  There are only 50,000 JWs in all of India, a country of a billion people. Not even a blip on the screen. Of course, if you are living with an active one, there may as well be a billion dubs.

  I have some experience dealing with the Society in India. In a phone call that I made to the WT Branch in India, I spoke with a brother in Service. In talking with him about a situation I was dealing with, I found that JWs in India are much like people in a small town...everyone knows everyone and knows their business.

  I presume you were a JW when you left India..and I presume you are "good standing but inactive" in UK (translation: you haven't done anything ..or been caught doing anything...to get DF'd but you havent been in field service for 6 months or more...meaning you do not exist in WT statistics except in an archive of your last publisher card). Good situation.

  When you go back to India...do not under any circumstances have your card transferred back to India. IF IF IF IF (and its a big IF since you havent been to the KH in 3 years) the local elders in UK ask, tell them you wish to keep your card with them until you can get settled somewhere. Do not tell them specifically where you are going in India. When you get to India, and the local elders in your mom's congo ask, tell them you are here temporarily and that you are in good standing but that you are keeping your card in UK. Transferring cards, etc internationally sucks. I was a secretary once, I know.

  Now...about dealing with JW elders in India. It is very difficult to communicate with them if you are not a native speaker. I know of this from personal experience. The eldersin UKwill not want to do much work to send letters, publisher cards, or make phone calls to make sure you are tracked down in India..especially since you are long-term inactive. The India elders are not going to want to go through the hassle of contacting UK elders.... you see where this is going? F A D E. Pretty soon, the UK elders are going to get busy and forget about you. The India elders will only care if your mom keeps stirring the pot.

  worse case...bribe the India elders. Seriously. Very common in that country for elders to take bribes. I know of this from my ex-fiancee...her ex-husband had his momma bribe the elders with alcohol and money to write a sterling letter about her son...who was inactive...LOL. I also know it from my conversation with the brothers in Service Department there. The elders in India do not beat to the same drum as Brooklyn. Use it to your advantage.

  As to your mom... forget the letter and forget the DA...believe me I have thought about doing it too...and got pretty much the same advice as you are getting on this thread...... Just go about your business. When asked about going to meetings, just tell your mom you are not going. When asked why not, just say you don't feel like it. You are 26 -- an adult. Of course, in India, you face the triple whammy of being young, female (in a male dominated society, both WT and Indian), and a JW....oh.. I do not envy your situation.

  India is a beautiful and scary place. I was in Pondicherry for a few days...flew out of Mumbai and Chennai... glad I didnt end up staying. Maybe one day I will visit there again under better circumstances. I still have 7 years I can use my visa to visit India.

  Snakes ()
• 

  nelly136

  is india your only option? would you have the same visa problems in france poland spain ireland germany holland norway etc?

  if youre d'ad or dfd your mum isnt obliged to put a roof over your head as you've already left home, and being an only child doesnt really count for much. you dont want to get off the plane and find yourself on the street before or after youve had time to unpack.
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  MisfitMeL

  Damocles : You're right. I really do need to sort out the mother-daughter relationship first before jumping headlong into anything else. I definitely need to establish boundaries and make sure she realises I'm an adult and that she has to respect my decisions and choices.

  Snakes : Your post was wonderful. It is certainly encouraging to read someone's first hand experience, especially since you know what it can be like! I can't emphasise how invaluable it is... and yes it definitely sucks with the triple whammy. I'm going to copy and print your advice about the congregations so I can remember exactly what to do and say when the time comes!

  "The India elders will only care if your mom keeps stirring the pot." That's the one issue that worries me the most! My mum. I couldn't really care less what other people do, but she's a type of person who won't let sleeping dogs lie!

  Nelly : Yes I'd have the same problem any where in the EU as I need a visa to live/work anywhere. I'm going to keep my head as low as possible and try to find a job asap and probably get my friends to put up with me for a while.
• 

  Black Sheep

  I know I will be itching to 'tell all' to my mum though!

  You must resist that temptation at all costs.

  It wastes the few good opportunities you get. It doesn't work because they are trained not to listen. Spilling you guts on a variety of WT faults in one hit identifies you as an apostate and negates everything you say.

  Only ever ask one question. Make it a good one. Ask it in such a way that they feel obligated to do the research to find the answer.

  Don't let them change the subject. The usual trick is to ask you a question. Don't get sucked in by it. "I would rather you answered my question before we discuss that one!" The same applies if they ask you a question hours, days, or weeks later. Just refer them to your original question.

  If you made that first question a good one, they might leave you alone after a while.

  It is working for me with my family. My father occasionally loses his senses and tries something. I just ask him why he his asking me that, when he still hasn't given me a King List for Babylon. I chose that subject because a correct King List can be made by looking up the kings on the WTCD and/or the books and volumes in the KH library. It hasn't got anybody out yet, but it keeps them off my back.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  Black Sheep

  Try to get a copy of the July Awake! to take with you.

  It may be some help with boundary setting.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  Vinny

  I think a DA letter is a great idea because it puts everything that troubles you as neat and concisely as you possibly can.

  Also, people will at least get to read about the issues themselves that in many cases the average JW has no clue about.

  It also tells everybody that this is your stand.

  And finally, nobody can stop by to encourage you with guilt trips.

  Here was my own letter. Feel free to copy anything that moves you:

  http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/922/t/Letter-of-disassociation.html

  I've had many people since contact me saying they appreciated that I wrote it and shared it online.

  Here is a thread full of e-mails I received when that same letter was published this past December from former and current JW's.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/168958/1/EXPOSING-THE-WATCHTOWER-SOCIETY-ONLINE

  Hope it helps. Just remember you are definitely not alone.

  Good luck with your family and new life!

  Vinny
• 

  willyloman

  Here's one suggestion I haven't heard yet: Talk to your mother.

  It sounds like the two of you have a deep relationship, except for the difference in your religious views (which is a new wrinkle). And aparently you both need each other because of circumstances.

  When my wife and I fully realized the JW life was not for us and we had to stop doing it, our big concern was our grown children and whether they would stop associating with us. After much thought, we talked to them (individually) and told them we were doing some serious soul searching and asked how they would feel about us if we stopped going to meetings.

  The results were really quite good. One of them said she had been thinking about quitting, too, and was delighted. The other two were gracious and said that they would never shun us as they loved their parents. After talking with them, we decided to fade, not to write a letter that would allow the organization and the JWs to brand us with a label.

  When the two children saw how happy we became after freeing ourselves from what we now realize is a cult, they separated from the organization as well and it worked out better than we had hoped.

  So think about talking to your mother along those lines. Don't say "I'm going to quit" or "I already quit," just ask how she'd feel about you if you made a decision to stop attending meetings. Then follow your instincts and go from there.
• 

  freddo

  About Snakes "bribe the elders advice" ... and "UK elders can't be bothered with the card sending etc"

  Be careful on this one - in India JW's are often near the "ex colonial" enclaves like Goa or/and sometimes there is a relatively rich British, American or Portuguese ex-pat. on the body of elders who will go running to Brooklyn over the heads of the locals.

  On the card sending - brilliant advice. I had experience of this between the UK and another EU country and a girl successfully faded, the cards I sent to the address she gave me for the Secretary in the congo she was going to were returned as "not known at this address" (or what ever that nation's equivalent is) and she is now back in our City, with a child, un-married and untouched (JW discipline wise) by her old congo who if they could be assed could df her easily. And mummy is a pioneer and stepdad is an elder LOL!
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  JustHuman14

  My advice dude is do not disassociate your selt. The problems you will be facing are huge if you do that. I know since I'm disfellowshiped. My family is broken, tense and many other things you cannot think of.

  My advice FADE OUT...Believe me is the best thing to do for you and your friends and relatives