Question

by inbetween 57 Replies latest jw experiences

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  OnTheWayOut

  ...the brothers at the GB are imperfect and make mistakes, this is no problem for me, but their writings is also flawed, and this is a problem, because they claim to be guided by Gods spirit.

  Additionally the writing of the GB is taken by witnesses as coming from God, so it has a tremdous impact in their life. Granted a lot of advice is given in a rather foggy way, pretending to leave matters up to the conscience of the brothers, but others are even disefellowshipping offences (blood for example).

  You nailed it. "Spirit-directed" and "inspired" mean basically the same thing, except in Dubbie language. There, it means "accept it as God's Word until we change it, then it was just imperfect mens' word."

  I talked to my non-JW father early on. If you want some aid to see if you are thinking straight, you really need a neutral party. JW's tend to want to turn you in. We here can help ya, but people like Reniaa will say we just want to drag you out. While we just want to help you see "the real truth" I can see how a JW would say we are biased, but so are they. But hey, if you have confidence in a good friend, you can take a chance on them. But it sets off alarms. Even if they managed not to turn you in, you may lose their friendship.
• 

  undercover

  I lurked here for a while and read all the horror stories of people who poured their hearts and minds out to elders or family and the disastrous results that happened. That discouraged me from saying too much too soon.

  I eventually, but cleverly, presented my doubts to a couple of elders who were trying to shepard me. Their reactions and lack of real answers convinced me that I was on the right track.

  Since then I have been very careful about what I say and to who (whom?) My immediate family was unresponsive to my new found knowledge and I had to pull back on my criticism of the WTS. I did help one family member see the light, but only after he started figuring it for himself; I only verified his suspicions. I spent some time with another 'brother' who was awakening from the indoctrination. I thought he was on his way out, but I found out he went back full tilt.

  Maybe oompa will weigh in with his recent experience about what can happen if you talk too much to the wrong people.

  If you do decide to talk to elders, don't go too far. Admit to some doubts...make it look like you're looking for help, not to challenge. But I can tell, in the end, it won't do anything. They're not going to give you answers that satisfy and you're not going to cause them to see the real truth. I'd say don't do it, but sometimes you have to at least try, if for no other reason than seeing for yourself that there really is nothing they can do to answer your concrerns.
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  DaCheech

  reniaa, give it up.

  the GB is a group of hypocrites.

  when other religions make mistakes they are quick to point the finger (like the scripture of the log and the splinter in the eye that you used on me)

  when they make mistakes, its "gwaaaaaaaaawww gwaaaaaaaww" persecution/devil

  by being blind to this, you make yourself a hypocrite also
• 

  The Berean

  "Into the ears of a stupid one do not speak, for he will despise your discreet words." (Proverbs 23:9 NWT)
• 

  leavingwt

  InBetween,

  I would suggest that you first read Steve Hassan's first book. Thought Reform is REAL, and your JW friends are victims of it. As you read our stories here, you'll see quite clearly that facts/dates/issues/doctrines/Scriptures have nothing to do with their loyalty to the WTS. Obedience and conformity are what is required from JWs, not comprehension/understanding/correctness or Biblical support.

  I will also tell you that it's all about PERSPECTIVE. Likely, you've had days, weeks or months to THINK about these things and reason on them. Keep in mind that when you talk to this person, their perspective will be DAY ONE. You may be able to recall how confused/scared/uncertain you were at the beginning of this journey.

  You should also prepare yourself for the worst case scenario. JWs are constantly reminded that "Satan" is looking to deceive them. You will represent this threat that they've been warned about if you say things that are critical of WT.

  Steve Hassan's second book provides guidance on how to speak with individuals without triggering their "cult personality". You want to reach the "authentic personality", the personality that loves and cares about you and is able to reason on things.

  Once the "cult personality" has been triggered and a person is on the defensive, no meaningful dialogue can be had.

  You've no doubt seen examples on this forum where black and white FACTS are rejected by victims of Thougt Reform. It's that powerful.

  -LWT
• 

  Heaven

  As a teen in the '70s, I knew there were issues with the doctrines as they contradicted themselves and the Bible. I recently started looking online and was quite amazed at just how much I had been correct! And how much I never knew.

  I spoke with some of my friends and my brother. I have never spoken to my father about what I have found except to counter whatever he is trying to indoctrinate me with at the time.

  If you try to speak to someone who is 'in' and fully indoctrinated, you'll be marked. And will probably be shepherded, at the very least, and disfellowshipped, at the very most. So be careful... keep your end goal in mind.
• 

  Spike Tassel

  Uh, Reniaa (Post 1830), are you sure?

  Most questions are covered by what you should already know as a witness and you will know the scriptures that have motivated that position by our leaders. [Spike's bolding added for emphasis]

  It seems to me that we ought to say that we have for us just oneLeader, the Christ, as Matthew 23:10 says.

  The expression, may I suggest, is those who are taking the lead, at least according to Hebrews 13:7,17.

  Christ's submissive lead to Jehovah's direction is the one we all must take, after all, since Christ is the head of his congregation.

  Also, knowing the positions to take and the scriptures that motivate them is not as clear-cut as all of that, in my honest opinion.
• 

  designs

  I would write to the Writing Department, 30 years worth of letters, and I have the responses.

  In the 1980's, after Ray left, the tone really changed and you would be refered over to the local BOE.

  Finally it all became to much.
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  Spike Tassel

  JWs say that the WT publications are Bible study aids, and we do know that research continually is updated, based on the context of what the world situation and developments are. So if there is a conflict between the NWT and newer WT publications, I would think that the newer WT publications would be more applicable, generally speaking. But then, that would require an update note in one's personal copy of the NWT itself, to reflect the change(s).

  Bible law is just like any other kind. It requires keeping up-to-date, but it also requires that one know the history of precedents as to how the law is understood and applied. Also, common word usage may differ, even dramatically, from the legal usage, I suggest.
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  DaCheech

  so spike, christian law should be adjusted to current customs?