Question

by inbetween 57 Replies latest jw experiences

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Inbetween

    Sorry I didn't answer your question and addressed our resident troll instead....

    My doubts, I tried once when I came back from my missionary sojourn to an elder I thought was my friend. I was so distraught with all that happened to me, and he actually questioned what happened to me... His unwillingness to be human totally shut me up, and I knew I would never share my true thoughts with any JW elder...

    Simply put, elders are trained and indoctrinated to respond to doubts in a very real and serious manner. Either you will be pegged as extremely weak, or evil, a potential apostate.

    I don't mean to be that blunt, but that is my experience, and also how I was trained as an elder.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt
    His unwillingness to be human

    Yep. Been there.

  • Spike Tassel
    Spike Tassel

    Science isn't Perfect. So their date-setting may well need revision going forward. Scientists are as fallible as JWs or any other human, when we trust on our knowledge as though it were Perfect.

    The reason for this simple. Our knowledge is not complete and our prophesying gives us only a small glimpse of the future. — 1 Corinthians 13:9, Blanco's Clear Water paraphrase.

    When the end comes and God gives us complete knowledge of things, then that which is partial and incomplete will pass away. — 1 Corinthians 13: 10, Blanco.

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Dear Inbetween,

    Only talk with someone if you are truely prepared for the consequences. Questioning ANYTHING will raise huge red flags, and no doubt the one you talk with will feel a moral obligation to speak to others what you have confided. Even if you talk with a Elder friend, he will most likely go to the body of Elders alerting them to your questions and they will begin keeping an eye on you.

    I remember how afraid I was to go to the Elders or ANYONE for that matter with my questions. From what I read here on the forum, I learned from others experiences, that it was very probable sharing my questions would not end well for me. My husband, who had been a Ministerial Servant, insisted I was being paranoid, and that we wouldn't have any problem if we shared our questions with the Elders.

    I was too afraid of being disfellowshipped, and so I made him promise not to say anything to anyone. That lasted for a while, but he felt he could confide in his mother....boy was he wrong!! (I tried to copy the link to my very first post on this forum for you to read the whole story, but since the format has changed, I can't figure out how to find it. Sorry.)

    Anyhow, remember...you can question, but you CANNOT question the answers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And if you have DEEP sincere questions, most likely you have done much research, and still things don't make sence. The Elders are trained on how to question, and can very quickly turn the tables on you so be VERY AWARE!!!!! It was my experience that they avoided answering my questions and got flustered with me very quickly, they want to convince you you are spiritually weak for even having questions to begin with. They use twisted reasoning simulare to Reiannas, by asking you "Why would you ask qustions to the things you already have to answers to?" (something to that effect.) And they will want to know how you came to have such questions. They are VERY suspicious because of the internet and sites like these. The point is for you to have conviction in your faith you HAVE TO have answers that make sence and are supported by facts regadless of how you came to question.

    As it finally turned out for us, we were eventually disfellowshipped. Still to this day my huband says how he just could not believe at the time how we were to encourage those at the door to question and even "aposticize" their faith, but we cannot question ours.

    Side note: There are plenty of articles saying research is a fine thing, and we should make the truth our own, and to do research even with the older publications, but if you do....BEWARE!!! You will be SHOCKED at what you find, as the most damning evidence of all, is the Societys own older literature. You will quickly realize that those articles are not written for those within, but for those coming in or those reading the magazines on the outside.

    Also, I want to tell you, you made a EXCELLENT point on your reply to Reianna regarding the disciples of old. We have to remember that Jehovah and Jesus do not change! What is wrong or right in their eyes will continue to be so from now into eternity. So if someone tells you a teachingis now old light, and the thinking changes, then it could not possibly have been from God or Jesus to begin with. Because we know from reading God's word, he does not change. So then we have to ask, who was the teaching from? Was Jesus directing the organization or not? Why would Jesus guide his sheep one way and let them live and die according to that teaching only to perhaps years later change.

    Light can get brighter, for example, we learn more reasons to continue supporting a belief that we have learned. Reasons become clearer, we become even more wiser and planted as to why we have always believed a certain way.

    But light does not flip off and on..like a light bulb...not if its from God it doesn't. For example something that had been wrong is one day announced to be ok...for instance, for years the Society taught that organ transplants were NOT a conscience matter. It was the same as cannabalism, and if a one were to take a transplant they were to be disfellowshipped for their actions.

    Now, however, it is a conscience matter. Think of the thousands who died refusing transplants, who would have maybe still been with us had they not have been faithful to who? Mere men! Certainly the teaching did NOT originate with God but man. The same goes with blood. My Grandfather is dead because he was faithful to a man idea..a teaching that has now changed!! You could not take ANY part of blood then...no fractions. Now....they are a conscience matter. It's very hard to accept for those of us who are left, and who now know the truth about the truth.

    Sincerely,

    Lady Liberty

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Reianna,

    You posted that the Society never claimed to be inspired..... well let me ask you this, what is a Prophet of God? Is not a Prophet someone who Prophecys???? Has not the organization over and over proclaimed themselves to be God's Prophet?? Indeed they have! And if they are speaking for God, would they not be Inspired??? Surely they would. You see it is a play on words...

    The dictionary says, Inspired: is to be imbued with the Spirit to do something, as if by Divine Influence.

    Another perfect example of this is when I learned the Societys teaching on the Jesus being the Mediator for ONLY the 144,000, and not the rest of mankind. They say in the same breath he is the High priest for everyone else.

    Once again, a play on words....what was the High Priest in Bible times, he was the Mediator! A Mediator between God and his people, and when Jesus, the High Priest arrived, he became the Mediator for ALL MEN.

    There is MUCH you obviously are not aware of. Stick around here and you will likely be suprised as to what you may find out about the organization that we all held so dear.

    Sincerely,

    Lady Liberty

  • Spike Tassel
    Spike Tassel

    Lady Liberty's Post 1 is at http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/109978/1/Its-High-Time-I-Introduce-Myself

    It is found by clicking on Lady Liberty, and looking at her Post History (at the top of the screen).

    Lady Liberty's Post 2480 reminds me of 1 Corinthians 13, which I will key in from Jack J. Blanco's Clear Water paraphrase, as follows:—

    8. The kind of selfless love that Christ had will never become obsolete, but one day prophesying will, as will the gift to speak in different languages, and even much of what we've learned.

    9. The reason for this is simple. Our knowledge is not complete and our prophesying gives only a small glimpse of the future.

    7. This kind of love believes in people. It is always full of hope, and it always takes what comes its way without complaint.

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Thank you Spike!!!

    How did you retreieve that???? If it's too hard to expalin don't worry about it. I just haven't posted on the forum too much since the format changed. Anyhow... I appreciate it!

    Sincerely,

    Lady Liberty

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    OK....Thank you...I see how...click on the "posted on"....Thank you!!

    Lady Liberty

  • Spike Tassel
    Spike Tassel

    Topics Post On and Topics Started are the 2 aspects of one's Post History. Sorry for not being as clear as I could have been.

    The kind of selfless love that Christ had is patient and kind. It never envies. It never puffs itself up. It never thinks of its own importance or serves only itself. — 1 Corinthians 13:4, Blanco.

  • inbetween
    inbetween

    thanks for the answers, very interesting viewpoints...

    yes,regarding my friend, I just wanted to plant a seed, he is very open, not dogmatic at all, we`ve been friends half our lifes. He is really a "cool" elder, but of course, questioning the org is something that is to be done very carefully. I know of myself, you just think the org and Jehovah are the same almost, thats what you hear everytime at the meeting...

    however, its not done in a merely "planting the seed" way, I still have some hope to find convincing answers, even though this hope is getting darker and darker.....

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