by AK - Jeff 53 Replies latest jw experiences
Calvin was just joining the dots.
Paul talked about predestination. Not everyone is called. I can't say I understand that but I have no problem with it.
They main thing is if you hear Him call then respond! Life is limited so it is surely well worth spending some serious time seeking God? After all, we spend enough hours on here discussing Him...
All the best,
Stephen
Go have a beer LeavingWT. ;-)
Not everyone is called.
If I understand Predestination correctly, a person NOT being called has NOTHING to do with that individual's conduct/attitude, etc. Some are simply not chosen. Is that right?
Go have a beer LeavingWT. ;-)
It won't be long. You're an hour ahead of us, here. I'm on CDT. Almost happy hour.
lwt,
Here you go, some bet time reading to get you started ;)
Predestination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Predestination (Calvinism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you want to get to the bottom of it then you need to get born again-best to start with the basics first :)
All the best,
Stephen
If you prefer watching vids then try this
Mark has done his homework and sounds out both sides of the discussion.
All the best,
Stephen
A simple answer won't offend me.
If only some are chosen, this necessarily means that some people are born into the world, merely to die and then go to Hell for all eternity.
If God does not choose me, all of the faith and praying in the world won't help me. Let's be honest with ourselves, it is quite possible that I am predestined to spend eternity in Hell.
The fact that this does not -- in the least -- concern me, leads me to believe that I am most assuredly not among the chosen.
OK this is my understanding!
I believe in predestination (the bible talks about it over and over) but that is one side of the coin.
The other side is free will. We need to do our part, to respond. That is seemingly contradictory, one says "heads" and the other "tails". However, in reality they are just two different views of the same thing.
To answer your question (and I will answer directly), a couple of JWs came to my house last year. They are two old ladies. I invite them in, we drink tea and have the usual round of topics, is Jesus God, who is the Holy Spirit, the Trinity etc. After much time (a whole morning I remember) I stump one on the issue of who is the Alpha and the Omega? She thinks the name relates to "Jehovah" only but I show clearly that it is Jesus' too. Of course, the implications are huge, Jesus is God etc. The other lady tries the usual tactics, a half baked answer with no substance and when I respond tries to switch topics.
Anyhow, the first one is interested so I think, ah great, some hope there! She comes back the very next day unannounced with some dude with "the answer". My wife isn't too impressed (she thinks I waste my time-probably true!) and I finally meet up with them the next week. Anyhow, more "answers", none of them make any sense and we are back on the merry go round, circular debate going nowhere.
When then go I pray and ask the Lord what I am to make of it all. He tells me to read 1 Peter 2
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
Hopefully you see the direct answer I received. Here it is below.
4. Jesus is rejected by them. My whole talk regarding faith centers on Jesus. Their whole faith centers on "Jehovah".
6. My trust is in Jesus. Theirs is in "Jehovah".
7. Once again, Jesus is precious to us who believe but others reject Him.
8. The stumble because of Jesus, because they "disobey the message" and also they were destined for this (two sides of the coin).
9. Wow!
10. Cool.
Well I pray for those two ladies. I leave it up to the Lord, although in many respects He has spoken loud and clear to me about them.
I had a similar situation regarding a JW who died last year. God spoke to me clearly about that situation too (prophetically through events, not the bible that time). He told me loud and clear "unfortunately not everyone makes it".
Anyhow, hope that answers your question?
All the best,
Stephen
God speaks to you, Stephen?
Could you send him over to my house, please. That is the whole point of this thread. Is his voice very masculine? Or is it more 'sensitive'?
Could you ask him why he invented polio, diptheria, and malaria please? Seriously. God is the 'creator' right? No one else can make a life form but Him? Why did he do such a dastardly thing in creating these terrible maladies? Does he intend to eventually destroy these germs [kind of like he intends on burning non-believers in hellfire for eternity] once his point is made [whatever that point might be] ?
Though I respect those who choose to 'believe' - I have never gotten a single one of them to engage in a serious discussion along these lines. They all just find a scripture or two to pound and thump and then ignore any intelligent questions put to them about proving what they believe.
My sister believes in the spirit world - she would prob be considered 'demonized' by most Christians due to her leanings toward wicca, spiritism, etc. But at least she tells stories about how she had encountered something that she considers real - she never thumps on a volume and insists her belief stems from the writings of others. Her stories might unravel with persistance also - but they are personal stories, not derived from legends and old books full of contradictions.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
OK I will pose some answers to your questions :)
God speaks to you, Stephen?
Yes. Prayer without answers would soon get boring. Ask any JW-they all seemed totally bored!
Could you send him over to my house, please. That is the whole point of this thread. Is his voice very masculine? Or is it more 'sensitive'?
He does what He likes. I don't give Him orders ;) His speaks in many ways. I haven't heard Him shout and I wouldn't like that. That is "fear of the Lord" I suppose! Anyhow, He tells me off every now and then but He isn't mad with me, a Father loves His children. His voice is masculine, as a Dad is but sensitive as you say.
Could you ask him why he invented polio, diptheria, and malaria please?
That is not His plan or His style. Creation was not made with disease and death.
Seriously. God is the 'creator' right? No one else can make a life form but Him? Why did he do such a dastardly thing in creating these terrible maladies? Does he intend to eventually destroy these germs [kind of like he intends on burning non-believers in hellfire for eternity] once his point is made [whatever that point might be] ?
Death is the hallmark of the enemy. He likes to corrupt, steal, kill, destroy. God hates that. However, He is Holy and He is just.
Creation is like a beautiful painting. Sin is like us putting black splodges all over the masterpiece. God send His Son to die a painful death so we can get cleaned up, good as new. The masterpiece will be restored, as good as new too. We have to decide if we like black splodges all over the beautiful picture or the way it should be. We get to spend an eternity with the type of artwork we choose, beautiful or black and ugly.
Though I respect those who choose to 'believe' - I have never gotten a single one of them to engage in a serious discussion along these lines. They all just find a scripture or two to pound and thump and then ignore any intelligent questions put to them about proving what they believe.
Fair enough. Here is another thing to consider. We are in charge of the planet right? What are we doing about the problems? Injustice? Starvation? Discrimination? For example, we have enough food to more than feed the whole of mankind but why are there thousands dying of starvation every day?
My sister believes in the spirit world - she would prob be considered 'demonized' by most Christians due to her leanings toward wicca, spiritism, etc. But at least she tells stories about how she had encountered something that she considers real - she never thumps on a volume and insists her belief stems from the writings of others. Her stories might unravel with persistance also - but they are personal stories, not derived from legends and old books full of contradictions.
That's cool. I respect that. Many people who go that direction come from "religion", a god with no power who doesn't show up or do anything. Pretty much like the "jehovah" of the WT. In fact, he just creates problems and is nothing to do with God at all.
I believe in a God of power who is alive, active and on the case. I can't stand that wimpy JW religion (and other like it) who say all the gifts of the Spirit have ceased. What a total bore (and a total lie).
All the best,
Stephen
