by OnTheWayOut 113 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
PSS- I just realized I misspelled Besty's name many times again in my last post. Now, I truly tried to get it right. For some reason Besty turns into Betsy. This was 100 percent by accident. Sorry about that.
"Besty" (especially when I apply an apostrophe "Besty's") is just not an easy one for the english language for some reason for me.
Vinny,
I appreciate your take. If I may be 100% blunt, sometimes I have a hard time with your style, thats probably what got me to say what I said on this and Flippers "RIP" thread.
So while I can't say I like how you approached this, or why you chose to take Besty on over this subject, its all good.
Vinny, I am going to get a Labatt, and I will have a drink to you for being the bulldog that you are dude.... And for Besty for the subtlties brought forth on this thread....
Btw, I would be a horrible moderator, I would suck at it.... I would rather continue to offer my slanted opinions if thats ok....
Vinny
On this one, we are in agreement. I always want to write "Betsy" or "Chesty". Either one is gonna get me in trouble....
Just to get a few matters straight, if a DF'ed person lived far enough away from family and the family didn't know the elders (or anyone ideally) from that congregation near his home, this could be done.
Once the "old cong." JC trusted that the guys on the phone were ready to reinstate Bro. Fictional, a few phone calls later, they could sign off on the matter. "You guys met with Bro. Fictional, so we will announce his reinstatement and our secretary will send the updated form to Bethel." End of that part of the matter. Family hear that Bro. Fictional is a brother again, the secretary sends the form and drafts a letter of introduction to send along with any service records they have to the "new cong." It doesn't matter to the "old cong." what happens to those records now, it's finished for them. Mission accomplished.
As far as people checking on Bro. Fictional, some kindly C.O. or elder might do so. "Those contact numbers were changed, huh how strange." Or maybe the fake cong. elders keep the numbers and keep up the charade just in case. Or family wants to know from the cong. how Bro. Fictional is doing. Either way, Bro. Fictional says he moved again and hasn't been going to the hall. He does a lightning fast fade. It's done. He shouldn't tip off family that he's apostate, but he can speak his mind without saying WTS is a dangerous f*cking mind-control cult. I know I speak my mind about it to the wife and some to the mother, and they don't "turn me in." Same could be true for a DF'ed family member that got reinstated- family doesn't want to lose contact if they can find a loophole.
Having been an elder, I can say there isn't really any good follow-up on these things. Elders usually act aloof and don't want family to get involved in elder business, so they don't tell them phone numbers or anything, they just tell family to ask Bro. Fictional anything they want to know. I know I have called other halls looking for information and usually received it if I said I was an "elder" and usually was told that they would have to look into it if I said I was a "brother." That shows trust among the various elders. It also shows that family and concerned ones will get stonewalled if they ask elders for specific information.
Bethel won't want to close up the loophole by making itself more involved in the process. I could see them say to check on a congregation and call the P.O. according to the Bethel-approved contact phone number, but I highly doubt even that would happen. TRUST in the brothers. Plus, if a Bethel-approved contact number were published, the fake elders could call the number and find the one that rings and rings and rings with no answer and use that cong. What will trusting brothers do- call that number again and again or simply call the number those brothers gave them when they called? Just trust them.
Can it be done? Yes. Can it easily be foiled? Yes. Will it? Each case can come out different. Should it be done? Who are we to decide for someone else.
OTWO- What OTWO said. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
OTWO
It occurred to me after reading your last post that the ONLY way this idea could actually work is if an individual made it work.
Hypothetically speaking of course.
Everyone here has brought forth opinions, but in the end, a lot of the hoped for success would depend a lot on how dumb your SEC is, and how good the fake SEC would be....
Hypothetically speaking of course.
I don't think this could ever be packaged or brainstormed to 100% fruition on JWN, but if someone REALLY wanted to get their cards and a letter, then its possible to pull it off.
Hypothetically speaking of course.
But that would be a lot of work, with a lot of risk, and at the end of the day, for what? Your pub cards? I guess if you view them as a scalp, or attach other meaning to them, and you feel you need it, its an option to consider.
Hypothetically speaking of course.
Hypothetically speaking...
But... once you have your Pub Cards... you can disappear off the radar?
Hypothetically speaking, of course.
Personally, I don't give a rats hind-end what or where my publisher cards are... they're probably all faded by this time - heck, it's been over 25 years now.
Me? I'm a fader.
I think - hypothetically speaking - in some cases - that someone could pull off a re-instatement - or at the very least a publisher card transfer.
In fact, I believe there are several documented cases on this forum of that happening. - Not hypothetically speaking.
Regards,
Jim TX
If you live anywhere close to where your were DF'd it simply can't happen. Everybody knows everybody. No way around it.
If you live hundreds of miles away but have a lot of people that are still in that care about you, it would be busted very quickly. Possibly even during the very same night announcement is made. (When my son was DF'd and moved 5000 miles away, I called his new congregation to make sure he was okay and they stopped in on him).
If you had MINIMAL friends and family that cared about you, and if lived many miles away from old congo and if you could pull the wool over the eyes of your original judicial committee and if Headquarters didn't find out about it and if no sharp circuit overseer to follow up on you then maybe, just possibly you could get away with it. And what about the supposed new congregation CO getting a letter to check on the newly reinstated fellow.
But then again if you have minimum family and friends who cares about getting reinstated. What's the point?
And in the case where we had a deleted thread we had a former elder, with decades of experience wanting to get reinstated for family.
That is a sure case of no chance it will last.
And when is falls apart all chances of getting back with family and or congregation will be shot down in flames for a very long time if not permanently.
The exact reasons that would cause some to take a look at this bogus reinstatement idea (family and kids and loved ones) are the very same reasons it would get busted up very quickly. Family, kids and loved ones checking up on them.
And for the people that possibly could pull it off (if getting away with it legalistically), what incentive is there if not for family, friends and loved ones?
It's just a no win deal here, IMO.
Flipper writes: "OTWO- What OTWO said. Peace out, Mr. Flipper"
**** Vinny Replies: ALLTIMEJEFF- What ALLTIMEJEFF said. Peace out, Vinny
At the time I left it was important to me to disappear. I did manage to have my Publisher Records cards forwarded to a family member including the letter of introduction. I was however in relative good standing at the time which facilitated the deception.
I still have my cards and I did a successful disappearance. However later when I got involved in Child Abuse issues as an advocate and appeared on TV and testified in court the resulting shunning still happened even tho a formal Committee has never been formed against me.
So disappearing while still in relative good standing is fairly easily accomplished (I've helped a few people do so). Getting reinstated so as to then fade is a lot more difficult but not impossible. Posting the exact details of how it was done is rather self aggrandizing and threatens the success of the initiative but people make their choices.
Uzzah
