Besty wants to continue...
Betsy writes: "Vinny If you don't grasp by now that I'm not a supporter of fake reinstatements per se I guess you never will :-( Thats why I haven't felt any need whatsoever to refute the good or bad points you make."
**** Then why did you write this in your very first comment on this thread: "I would say it's a good idea to take the concept of FakeReinstate 1.0 and work with the more knowledgeable posters on this board to come up with a refined enhanced version - FakeReinstate 2.0."
Sounds like you think, "it's a good idea", to me. I wonder if that's because you used those exact words in your very first comment.
Not one time did you say you were not a supporter, or why you are not a supporter until now. In fact you tried to give me a hard time because I was not a supporter and explained just why in detail.
And now you want to try telling me that I simply couldn't grasp that you are not a supporter (even though you said it's a good idea and said let's refine/enhance it and then complained when I did not support it).
This is some pretty lame-a$$ commentary from you now Besty. You'd have been better off just letting it go or going to the grocery store. Same with last night. But you can't for some reason.
Besty then writes: "What you have put your name to is permanently on the Internet for other people to guess your motivations and to glimpse your personality. Some have already commented on what they see ;-)"
**** Watching you get taken to the woodshed is not a fun thing to do. And that's exactly what happened last night. I gave details you could not refute. I was not on board with this plan. (Nor is almost anybody else from the comments I read... and now, ironically, including YOU). But you then started with the sarcastic/smart remarks and I then straightened you out for it with a little fun of my own.
Only you were like a sensitive baby when on the receiving end of it. You can obviously dish it out but cannot take it Besty. Explain that. You then try to chastise me for for the personal jabs all the while you started with them. And I showed you this. I noticed you avoided that in your reply here too.
Betsy writes: "I am a supporter of allowing almost all ideas to live or die on their own merits."
**** Part of that living or dying on its own merits is how will an idea can stand up to scrutiny and examination. Which is precisely what I offered. I also stated many times that these were only my opinions and I'd be all for it if it could be accomplished and to go for it if you folks see it differently. You seemed to miss that part and instead sarcastically thanked me for giving you permission. And that was when you had to get SPANKED right here Besty. Which you were, but then you cried about it like a spoiled little kid not getting his way. Amazing things from you on just this one thread.
What people can see with me is a man that will say what he truly believes, and offer specifics to support or back up what he thinks and truly believes. I can be very gentile and empathetic too. But when you start up with your own smart and sarcastic little one liners you can also be prepared for something in return. Only you fell apart when you got yours. Okay, so now we both know. It would be a smart idea if you can't take the heat to avoid starting a problem Betsy. Just some advice for you.
Besty writes: " I am a supporter of using the wisdom of the crowds to make the best possible strategies visible to a wider audience than JWN alone can reach."
**** Which is exactly what I offered on this thread last night. And now you say you agree with me (and everybody else) that fake reinstatement program is not something you support. It simply won't work in almost every case, IMO. Try something else then. I already wrote that I'd be on board if something else comes up. But you were too busy being offended for some reason to remember that part of what I said.
Besty writes: "I am a supporter of not being dogmatic, opinionated and condescending."
**** Yet you were all of the above on this thread alone. That is called being a hypocrite Besty. No other way to put it.
Besty writes: "And I am a supporter of allowing people the dignity to come to their own informed conclusion as to what will work for them."
**** Yet rather than allow me the dignity to share my my own conclusions you instead get smart and sarcastic because of them. And then offended and sensitive when I come back to you with some of my own.
Bestsy writes: "I hope our little tête-à-tête gave JWN readers as much pleasure as it gave me."
**** I'm glad you had fun and pleasure Besty. Only this reply (along with ALL YOUR REPLIES LAST NIGHT) sure sounds like you didn't have any fun and pleasure at all. Should I quote all your lack of pleasure comments and complaints?
Besty concludes: "Keep smiling people - the WTS are f**king up another 192 families today - we need all the ideas we can get to help them. All the posters on this thread have made a valuable contribution to the idea machine."
**** And this is what I have contributed towards for over 3 and a half years now since leaving the JW religion. My letters and posts are all over the internet whenever I can give my time.
I can agree with an idea or disagree. I have that right and option to do so, and have done just that here. Because I offered details as to why I thought this was not a great idea, alomng with the fact that most others on this thread agree with me that the idea of phony reinstatements and congregations is not the best direction to go, I believe I have made a positive contribution on this subject and thread.
Even if having to go through pages of stuff like this along the way.
Now, I have spent far too much time on this thing already.
It's just not a good idea, IMO. If I were to try any of this in my own case it would not fly off the ground for two seconds.
The elders in my congregation would laugh at this thing and I'd look like a complete loser to all JW's for even trying it.
I am open to other ideas. Notice the title to my DA letter here:
http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html
That title alone caused many a current JW to read it all the way through.
And then look at how many e-mails I received from it (and many others not posted up yet):
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/168958/1/EXPOSING-THE-WATCHTOWER-SOCIETY-ONLINE
There are numerous ways to help people see the facts as they are.
Just a couple of weeks ago I spent many days debating JW's on this thread on USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-06-15-jehovahs-witness_N.htm Over a dozen different JW's (that showed up) all were educated and then all ran away after getting thoroughly refuted on every issue they could bring up. Read it for yourself. It was 100 percent lopsided. It was just far too easy. And how many other people simply READ what was written and educated themselves? USA Today has a huge audience. I chose to spend time on that thread because it had such a large audience of people. Last night I saw this article and posted a comment on it: http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/07/mother_katherine_opens_up_abou.php I do not have time to keep doing this. Nor do I want to. I have a good life, but also a busy one. But whenever I can I do like to find ways to help educate people so they can at least have all sides of the JW faith to make a better decision. So once again I can agree with and do support whatever can be used to help people see the real truth about the JW religion. And if I disagree with a suggested tactic (as most here also feel and agree with me on this one), then there is nothing wrong with sharing that point of view either. All the best, Vinny
