Jesus God Or Not? Is This A Salvation Issue?

by frankiespeakin 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  frankiespeakin

  Jesus God Or Not? Is This A Salvation Issue?

  I don't get it? What is all this commotion about? Is God going to take vengeance on or deny salvation to the Christians that come up with the wrong answer? And a question that I ask frequently in these subjects that deal with the highly charged subject "God" is : Does he really even care what you believe? Or how many mistakes in your understanding the of bible will God tolerate before he pulls the plug of your salvation making all your worship of him is in vain?

  Judging from the many posters response it seems that many bible thumping Christians here, do feel salvation is in the balance, in getting this bible/religious question right.

  So my interest in this thread is not to hear the arguments for or against a Triune Jehovah, Jesus & HS but, what motivates this interest in arguing for or against.

  Do Christians from either side of this issue feel that they are closer to God or on the road to salvation more so than their other Christan counterparts who believe differently?

  As for those that feel salvation hinges on the correct choice in this matter please take time to explain to me why God is not petty in this requirement of getting the correct answer in this bible quiz.
• 

  Chalam

  Hi FS,

  If a man dies to take away the sin of the world John 1:29 then likelihood it will be God's only begotten Son, not "a god", an angel, papa smurf or anyone else?

  If a man lives a life on this earth around prostitutes and sinners and was tempted in every way yet was without sin Hebrews 4:15 then likeihood He is God's only begotten Son?

  If a man is given the same names and titles as God Almighty Revelation 1:8 Revelation 21:6 Revelation 22:13 then likelihood He is one as the same as God Almighty John 10:30, especially if He is called Mighty God Isaiah 9:6?

  The issue is not on the judge being petty regarding the identity and history of Jesus but the whole of the WT not being built on the rock, who is Jesus.

  Corinthians 3:11 (New International Version)

  11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

  1 Peter 2:4-8 (New International Version)

  The Living Stone and a Chosen People

  4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:
  "See, I lay a stone in Zion,
  a chosen and precious cornerstone,
  and the one who trusts in him
  will never be put to shame." 7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
  "The stone the builders rejected
  has become the capstone," 8 and,
  "A stone that causes men to stumble
  and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. All the best, Stephen
• 

  Chalam

  I forgot to respond to this

  Do Christians from either side of this issue feel that they are closer to God or on the road to salvation more so than their other Christan counterparts who believe differently?

  Well there is one road, that is Jesus, one way to get close to God, that is Jesus, one name to be saved by, that is Jesus, one gate to enter the Kingdom, that is Jesus

  John 14:6 (New International Version)

  6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

  Acts 4:12 (New International Version)

  12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

  John 10:7-9 (New International Version)

  7 Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.

  So, unfortunately it is not a question of "more" but a black and white issue Matthew 25:31-33

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Chal,

  Thanks for responding, I'm sure you have read my threads where I express disbeleif in the biblical Deity,, I say this for you to see and other posters to see where I'm comming from.

  So may I ask the further question of you as to your beleifs about the Jesus=God issue and Salvation?
• 

  frankiespeakin

  I mean it sounds strange to me at least,, that a invisible "loving" Deity would make this a watermark of some sort of how many Bible raised questions you can get wrong or which bible questions you can't get wrong before a critical point is reached and promised salvation is out of the question or invalid in his or her case.

  It's all mental really,, if belief is the issue of salvation,,, that god is out there somewhere judging you by reading your thoughts and so you have to think this certain way or else salvation will elude you or that maybe some future judgement day you will experience his wrath, if you don't kept the faith the way you learned it most likely raise up by family from babyhood. But in the end it is all mental,, in the mind, in the mind is where beliefs are.
• 

  bluecanary

  I see where you're coming from frankiespeakin. When you're a witness, salvation is based on actions, which includes repeating the party line. For Christians, salvation is based on what's in the mind and heart. Actions favored by the God of these Christians have to do with love, not doctrine.

  So if you believe in this God and Jesus, believe the central doctrine of the gospel that Jesus died to absolve mankind of their sins, and treat your fellow humans with love, does it matter whether you think Jesus is divine but slightly lesser than God or if you believe that Jesus and God are completely equal?

  Do you have to hold to any particular doctrine, other than what Paul states at 1 Cor 15:4 about Jesus dying and being raised up? Will God overlook it if a sincere and faithful individual is too confused by varying interpretations and counterarguments of the scriptures to come up with the correct belief?
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Blue,

  So do you feel that a Deity that is "loving" would require doctrinal belief as a prerequisite for salvation?
• 

  bluecanary

  I can't answer that as I'm not a believer. But I am interested in the question.
• 

  JosephMalik

  Or how many mistakes in your understanding the of bible will God tolerate before he pulls the plug of your salvation making all your worship of him is in vain?

  Frankiespeakin,

  The problem with this question is that the answer is a variable and not fixed as you suggested here. For example, your salvation or anyone’s salvation for that matter may become dependent upon other factors instead of what you or they understand and/or what they teach. Additional time may be given to some after their resurrection in the Kingdom to correct such misunderstandings if their life qualifies otherwise. This would mean that your or their position in the Kingdom may be as part of the general population instead of the Saints. We should not confuse such a salvation of humanity with texts that deal only with faithful ones that are found acceptable to our Lord as his disciples and are Justified or Saved as a consequence. Christianity consists of a mixture of all sorts and a weeding out process is promised for all mankind, Christians included when our Lord returns. In a simple statement our Lord identified the faithful and said: Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Such commandments do not include Watchtower ones especially the ones that deny Christ to their followers. Such commandments do not include teachings or wording that our Lord did not support personally or authorize his Apostles to teach. If you find yourself in a situation where such commandments of our Lord are violated, then get out. Expose the errors and move on down the narrow road instead. Jews had to do that very thing by giving up the Law and their Talmud as a means of their salvation, no simple task for them. Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Yes there is a limit and it is not that difficult to find. This is what disciples do in obedience to the words or our Lord: Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

  Joseph
• 

  Deputy Dog

  frankie

  It's all mental really,, if belief is the issue of salvation,,,

  What do you mean by "belief"?

  My faith is in the work of the only one qualified to perform it.