The burden of truth is on trinitarians to prove that accepting the doctrine of the trinity is essential for salvation.
Jesus God Or Not? Is This A Salvation Issue?
by frankiespeakin 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Deputy Dog
Chalam
how can you know about what Jesus has really done if you don't know who He really is?
Isn't that were the Holy Spirit comes in?
"Anyhow, I have another valid question, are we saved by His work or by faith?"
Well there is that "Golden Chain". We are saved by Grace, through Faith (which is given as a gift, by grace) in His work. You know the "Solas".
Bottom line is One God=One Savior.
"Jesus has a free gift of salvation for all, it is up to those that hear about it to take it, not to leave it unopened."
I'm not so sure we can make this stick, using the bible.
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Chalam
The burden of truth is on trinitarians to prove that accepting the doctrine of the trinity is essential for salvation.
I find no burden to prove the Trinity. I think scripture points to it enough times.
The burden of proof for salvation is here
Romans 10:9 (New International Version)
9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
JWs fail twice. They do not believe Jesus is Lord but "Jehovah", look inside the NWT greek scriptures and see countless times where the word "Lord" has been changed to "Jehovah". Secondly, JWs say Jesus was raised from the as a "spirit creature". This goes directly against the bible and testimony of Jesus Himself.Luke 24:39 (English Standard Version)
39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Can JWs be saved? You decide.
All the best,
Stephen
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Deputy Dog
bc
"Is a sincere Christian from the incorrect group doing something wrong? Will Jesus/God overlook their error?"
I think you need to ask, how does "a sincere Christian" get into the wrong group?
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Chalam
Chalam
Isn't that were the Holy Spirit comes in?
I agree! Who is giving you these answers, the Holy Spirit? :)
Well there is that "Golden Chain". We are saved by Grace, through Faith (which is given as a gift, by grace) in His work. You know the "Solas".
I agree. What is Solas BTW? Don't forget also that faith without works is dead James 2:26
Bottom line is One God=One Savior.
Agreed!
I'm not so sure we can make this stick, using the bible.
Try these
Revelation 22:17 Ephesians 2:8 Isaiah 55 Romans 6:23 John 4
All the best,
Stephen
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bluecanary
DeputyDog said: I think you need to ask, how does "a sincere Christian" get into the wrong group?
By being confused or deceived. I was a sincere Christian as a JW in the sense that I fully believed I was following Christ the way he wanted. Obviously I was wrong. But I believed wholeheartedly that I was right. The moment I stopped believing it was right, I left. But it took 20 years for that to happen.
Joseph, thank you for your response. Mistakes made by the early Christians were indeed corrected, although not always immediately or all at once. And I think it evident that Jesus would not overlook the false beliefs of any who are aware they are false and purposefully teaching others falsehood.
What I am wondering about is individuals, rather than entire groups. If an individual is associated with a group that teaches falsehood, but have been fooled into believing it is truth, and does not become aware of that deception before they die, does God hold that against them in judgment? This question is relevant, not just for Christians, but for people in other faiths who have been taught that their particular god or prophet is the true one.
Stephen said: So what is your interest with the Unitarians? What do you see Jesus as?
My only impressions of Jesus, as yet, have come from reading the new world translation. I have a lengthy reading list with many topics; it is my intention to read some books about the historicity of Jesus and, as usual, I would like to consider different conclusions on the matter.
My feeling right now is that Jesus was very similar to Siddhartha Gotama (the original Buddha). He was a man with no claim to divinity, who tried to influence people to develop compassion-based wisdom in order to lead more fulfilling lives. I think the trappings of organization and religious doctrine group up around him without his intent.
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civicsi00
If Jesus was not God, then why didn't he correct Thomas, after Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!"?
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Chalam
Hi BC,
My only impressions of Jesus, as yet, have come from reading the new world translation. I have a lengthy reading list with many topics; it is my intention to read some books about the historicity of Jesus and, as usual, I would like to consider different conclusions on the matter.
My advise is bin it. You have no doubt seen enough of the WT in action to know their bible is a crock as well.
Choose any you like the look of here and read 'em for free Book of John :) The only thing is to be open to the Holy Spirit as you speak.
My feeling right now is that Jesus was very similar to Siddhartha Gotama (the original Buddha). He was a man with no claim to divinity, who tried to influence people to develop compassion-based wisdom in order to lead more fulfilling lives. I think the trappings of organization and religious doctrine group up around him without his intent.
I am afraid I am with C.S. Lewis on that one. If that is the case Jesus was a deluded liar and a mad man making the claims he did.
I would read His book and as you do, ask Him who He really is John 14
If you seek Him, He will respond :)
All the best,
Stephen
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Deputy Dog
Chalam
What is Solas BTW?
Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")
Sola fide ("by faith alone")
Sola gratia ("by grace alone")
Solus Christus or ("through Christ alone")
Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")
Try these
After close examination, these verse seem to be making my point.
Rev 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let the one hearing say, Come! And let the one who is thirsty come. And he willing, let him take of the Water of Life freely.
Certainly not everyone hears. It seems there is a special call required.
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Chalam
Hi DD,
Certainly not everyone hears. It seems there is a special call required.
I agree! It is written all over the bible.
You got to the bottom of this verse at all?
All the best,
Stephen