Jesus God Or Not? Is This A Salvation Issue?

by frankiespeakin 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Chalam

  Hi FS,

  Interesting posts. I agree with bluecanary about JWs in effect being saved by "works" i.e. what they do. This is contrary to the whole of the NT teaching on grace i.e. unmerited favor. JWs in their actions go directly against these verses and many others

  Ephesians 2:8-9 (New International Version)

  8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  In fact, the WT hate the word grace so much they remove it from the NWT. They want you enslaved to their rules and regulations and in fear of leaving the. This is not the message of the bible. Jesus wants you to come to Him, not "God's organisation".

  Matthew 11:28-30 (New International Version)

  28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

  So to answer the question of salvation, is Jesus=God a prerequisite for salvation? Well, put it this way, Jesus will not give you a pen and theological paper to answer come judgement day. However, knowing Jesus would seem very beneficial at that point! Matthew 7:21-23 Thus I would say, get to know Him. Ask Him if He is God or "a god"? Ask Him if He is the Alpha and the Omega, or the arch angel Michael? Read His book and listen out for His Spirit John 14 All the best, Stephen
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  bluecanary

  Stephen, are you saying that if we pray to Jesus and read the Bible and try to form a relationship with him that we will come to the correct conclusion about whether or not he is God? If that is the case, are those who have come to the opposite conclusion doing something wrong?
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  Deputy Dog

  Chalam

  So to answer the question of salvation, is Jesus=God a prerequisite for salvation? Well, put it this way, Jesus will not give you a pen and theological paper to answer come judgement day. However, knowing Jesus would seem very beneficial at that point!

  Is your salvation based more on the existence and identity of Jesus? Or His work?
• 

  Chalam

  Hello BC,

  Stephen, are you saying that if we pray to Jesus and read the Bible and try to form a relationship with him that we will come to the correct conclusion about whether or not he is God? If that is the case, are those who have come to the opposite conclusion doing something wrong?

  I agree with your statement, the better you get to know Jesus the more you really know about him.

  Ask any JW who they have a relationship with in in Heaven and you will either get a blank look or the name "jehovah". Some might actually answer "jehovah through Jesus" or similar. In that case I would say, well what is Jesus like? Let me know you personal experiences about Him? That would surely draw a blank response from JWs.

  Yes, JWs have the opposite conclusion regarding Jesus. They think they know (about) Him but they don't. Unfortunately they have been deceived and are taught about an impostor (anti) Christ.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  Chalam

  Hi DD,

  Is your salvation based more on the existence and identity of Jesus? Or His work?

  Good question! I would of course fall more heavily on the second statement but I would say this, how can you know about what Jesus has really done if you don't know who He really is?

  Anyhow, I have another valid question, are we saved by His work or by faith?

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  wobble

  Jesus is god,as the greek word theos is applied to him many times. we can get into long and pointless discussions about semantics ,but to get back on thread, what does God do on Judgement Day with the illitrerate man who has never heard of the Bible ?

  JW's answer is that He reads their heart,and that would seem logical for a loving God,so how can he judge someone else who had better opportunity, but still not the ability to come up with the "right" answer, in a harsh way ?

  So salvation cannot depend on our intellectual grasp of scripture, but from Jesus own words,it does depend on how we treat even one of his "little ones".

  So even if we don't believe in God,it would seem that we can still be "saved" ?????

  Love

  Wobble
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  Chalam

  Wazzup Wobble?!

  what does God do on Judgement Day with the illitrerate man who has never heard of the Bible ?

  This might be of interest 1 Peter 3:18-20

  The best bit of advise I heard on this topic was we will be judged on what we know, not what we don't. After all, the later would be injustice.

  Yes, preaching the name of Jesus is core, but what about those who never heard of Him?

  Those that have faith are justified by it Romans 4 Galatians 2 Galatians 3

  See the whole long list of those who lived before Jesus was ever born for example Hebrews 11

  Jesus has a free gift of salvation for all, it is up to those that hear about it to take it, not to leave it unopened.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  bluecanary

  Stephen, I agree about the Witnesses. We were told that Jesus was supposed to be our friend, but I never understood this. I can like and respect someone that I never talk to, but I can't be friends with them.

  But that wasn't what I meant by my question. I was speaking of a trinitarian Christian vs. a unitarian Christian. Does one of them not have a real relationship with Christ? If they've come to different conclusions from reading the Scriptures, does that mean that only one group is being spoken to through holy spirit? Is a sincere Christian from the incorrect group doing something wrong? Will Jesus/God overlook their error?
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  Chalam

  Hi BC,

  As I said in the other thread, Jesus is slow to anger and quick to forgive.

  When I started reading my bible about four years ago, I thinking was "God is OK, Jesus is a bit cheesy".

  God was patient with me, for 20 years and still is :)

  Now I realise that Jesus is not cheesy at all. He is THE man!

  If you believe Jesus is God then that is two third of the Trinity and the Holy Spirit largely falls into place, i.e. He is the Spirit of the Father and the Son. I don't think many believe in Jesus being God who do not believe that the Holy Spirit is too. Thus, I think the vast majority who believe Jesus is God are likely Trinitarians and those that don't are not, such as the Unitarians.

  There are some in between or other schools of thinking such as these Oneness Pentecostalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  So what is your interest with the Unitarians? What do you see Jesus as?

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  JosephMalik

  Is a sincere Christian from the incorrect group doing something wrong? Will Jesus/God overlook their error?

  bluecanary,

  A sincere Christian can indeed do something wrong, just like some of the Apostles did for years. Such error will not be overlooked and was not overlooked in their case since they were corrected with the selection of the Apostle Paul. And this is not the only example given in scripture of errors made in the faith by them. Jesus will reject the evil slave at His coming and will not overlook their errors. But Jesus will try first to correct them if possible the way He did for His own Apostles both before and after He left. And the Apostles tried to do the same thing to the Church with Paul doing much of it. If they refuse such correction then they are not the sincere Christians you think they are. Nice people perhaps but misinformed and mislead. After all we have this promise from Him. Lu 21:14 YLT ‘Settle, then, to your hearts, not to meditate beforehand to reply, 15 for I will give to you a mouth and wisdom that all your opposers shall not be able to refute or resist. How under such circumstances can a sincere Christian be in the incorrect group? Does anyone really believe what our Lord promised or are they simply adamant in supporting the theology or their church group?

  Joseph