Why is the US so afraid of Social Health Care?

by eyeslice 298 Replies latest jw friends

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  coffee_black

  Hello Coffee-black. Why is it that the only time people seem to be bothered by not understanding the content of bills is when it has to do with healthcare?

  Not true in my case. Actually, I do my best to keep up with what is in the legislation that is passed . As I said I'm working my way through reading the bill/bills myself. I have ALWAYS found it rediculous for representatives to sign bills they have not read. We pay them to represent us. If they can't be bothered to understand the bills they sign into law, then it is time they went home and found something else to do for a living.

  If you sign a contract...do you not read it thoroughly first? Or do you just trust the other party to draft the contract fairly? If you do that in your personal life, then you should EXPECT you representatives to do that in issues that effect all Americans. If you don't...shame on you.

  Coffee
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  Justitia Themis

  Those other things you mentioned are not that up close and personal to the average joe, but issues pertaining to income and health ARE.

  Considering that under the Patriot Act, your neighbor could report false information about you to Homeland Security and you could be placed in an unknown location, incommunicado, for an extended period of time without you family/friends knowing what happened to you, I have to disagree with your assertion that healthcare is much more personal.

  What it does demonstrate is that the "average Joe" is easily manipulated. Neither Dems nor Repubs wanted their constituents to read and understand the Patriot Act; therefore there were no "talking points" passed on for the Limbaughs of the world to rail against.

  There IS a desire on the right, because of its historical ties to big business, to derail health care reform. Since the right doesn't have the votes in Congress, they have to use the "average Joe" as their pawns.

  Do you remember "Joe the plumber" who campaigned FOR McCain and against Obama asserting that Obamaland would kill his business when, in fact, McCain's plan would harm him more?
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  Justitia Themis

  I have ALWAYS found it rediculous for representatives to sign bills they have not read

  You didn't answer my questions. Name a bill. What bill have you posted about on a discussion board that you were against because your rep. hadn't read it?

  Everyone agrees with the general concept of reading before signing. But, that has been happening for decades. Why is it suddenly discussion board news now...now that the bill in question is health care reform? Where was the outrage before?
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  coffee_black

  I haven't posted about reading bills here before. There are lots of things I don't post about....doesn't mean I don't get involved in real world issues in real life on all levels... This board is not the center of my life, thankfully. Someone started this thread, and like many others, I commented with my opinion. In general I try to stay off of political threads...but sometimes can't resist. Political threads seem to get nasty... and I just have better things to do than get upset over them. I'd rather go out and do something than to just talk about it. I commented on this thread because this issue is hugely important because it will effect all Americans, and we have to get it right. .

  Something similar has been tried in Massachetts, where I live. I did protest it at the time. It was rushed through. It has now caused problems here, and the governor is looking for ways to cut it back...as Massachusetts is heading for bankrupcy.

  Have you read the bill? Do you trust your representatives?

  Coffee
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  Justitia Themis

  DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER! I'm simply posting what your governmental officials think about the average Joe.

  This excerpt is from a history book and discusses the historical Progressive Period (when intellectuals thought that if we could increase the educational level of the average citizen, they could be informed voters) through the Roaring Twenties (which roared for big business only, was a time of deregulation, a decline of labor and set the stage for the Depression as business raped the land.)

  "Among the changes ws the disintegration of Progressivism as a political movement and body of thought. The government's success in whipping up mass hysteria during the war seemed to undermine the very foundation of democratic thought--the idea of the rational, self-directed citizen...[d]uring the1920s, Walter Lippmann published two of the most penetrating indictments of democracy ever written, Public Opinion and The Phantom Public, which repudiated the Progressive hope of applying "intelligence" to social problems in a mass democracy. Lippman claimed, the American voter is ill-informed and prone to fits of enthusiasm. Not only were modern problems beyond the understanding of ordinary men and women (a sentiment that had earlier led Lippmann to favor adminstration by experts), but the independent citizen was nothing but a myth. Like advertising copywriters and journalists, he continued, the government had perfected the art of creating and manipulating public opinion--a process Lippman called the "manufacturing of consent."

  Give Me Liberty: An American History, Eric Foner, W.W. Norton & Company: New York, 2006, p. 670.
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  coffee_black

  You are right, Justinia. Our governmental officials don't think very highly of us. Why should we trust them then?

  Coffee
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  Justitia Themis

  Unfortunately, governmental officials do not think much of the average Joe, because the average Joe IS"prone to fits of enthusiasm." There is nothing factually incorrect in the passage I posted; the problem is with the average Joe.

  Governmental officials do not think much of the average American, because the average American has repeatedly demonstrated that he/she is not going to do the work necessary to be an informed voter. Instead, the public will become angry about officials not reading bills when those same officials slip a talking point to a radio talk show host to broadcast the issue to get it into mainstream media, and the public will respond as expected.

  It's almost a calculation; you feed a point of Limbaugh, in X amount of hours it hits his show, in X amount of hours it hits CNN, in X amount of hours the average Joe is 'outraged that his/her Congressperson didn't read the bill.' ...otherwise known as the manufacturing of dissent.
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  Justitia Themis

  Why should we trust them then?

  Coffee

  I don't trust either party or any Congressperson. I look for someone who, in acheiving his/her goals, will benefit me; I capitalize on his/her greed. The modern Progressives party is the Democratic party. There are still some bleeding-heart liberals who think that if we can just educate the public, they will respond to logic and will vote accordingly. I suspect Pres. Obama is one them; I do not hold that position.

  Progressives/Democrats feel that the more stable, happy and content the middle-class, the more secure their political positions. In other words, if the average Joe has beer, porn, food, a house and medical care, he will be even less interested in politics. In addition, they are aware that history has documented that a weak middle class leads to government officials, or their wives, literally losing their heads.

  Their goals/viewpoints benefit me, because they will attempt to keep a strong middle-class.

  The Republican party has, in modern history, been the champion of big business and has since the 20s espoused a let-them-eat-cake mentality. That definitely does not benefit me.

  The only thing I trust officials to do is benefit themselves; I just align myself with the party who, in benefitting themselves, will benefit me.
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  I quit!

  The Republicans held power for 8 years, during which time they bankrupted the economy by starting a war with ulterior motives, suspended many of our rights under the Constitution, moved the American political agenda far to the right, and created huge opportunities for wealth for their friends. They did this with a propaganda machine that Goebbels would have envied.

  Yup!
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  leavingwt

  White House Appears Ready to Drop Public Option

  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul