Anyone heard of Watchtower policy change concerning pedophiles

by Robert_V_Frazier 203 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  Big Tex

  2 instances, reported by 1 witness, each CAN count as fulfilling the 2-witness rule

  Although I absolutely disagree with your premise, for the sake of discussion, let's assume you are correct that it is possible.

  What procedures have Jehovah's Witnesses put in place to safeguard against Elders who ignore, disregard, or are otherwise completely ignorant of this possibility and do not act to protect the congregation from a pedatory sexual offender?

  How do Jehovah's Witnesses ensure that the elders actually follow this procedure you outline?

  Secondly, what procedures have Jehovah's Witnesses put in place to deal with elders who have not followed what you say is a rule? What do Jehovah's Witnesses do to Elders Gone Wild (to use Sola's term)? If Jehovah's Witnesses are really as you say they are, then there must be some evidence to back up your assertion.

  See Spike, I am simply following Jehovah's example. I am looking, not at what Jehovah's Witnesses say, I am looking at what they do. Can you agree with me that there is a huge difference between the two?

  Matthew 7:15-23:

  15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

  21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
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  Georgiegirl

  (stepping VERY gingerly into the fray)

  First, let me make it crystal clear that I believe THAT anyone who sexually molests a child is beyond sickening. It is vile, despicable, and unforgivable. Secondly, I WAS molested by an elder and nothing was done (and no, I am not going to elaborate - it's MY past and I prefer to leave it there). So...when I make the following statement, I am NOT defending the WTS in any way. If I hadn't smashed my CD to little pieces when I left and thrown out 25 years worth of KMs - (NOW I realize they were a treasure trove for research, unfortunately) - I would scan and print this so I will have to leave it to those who are in to provide the references.

  However, protocol HAS changed since I (and many others on this board) was molested. Two eyewitnesses to DIFFERENT events can indeed testify and those two events can be taken to DF a child molester. I am making NO comment or judgement about why or as to the rightness of it, I am merely verifying the procedure.

  Now...if a child molester moves to a new congregation and it was never a judicial matter and no one knows about the molestation and WHEN it occurs again, to my knowledge there is no safeguard put in place so the new congregation would know about the molestation - ergo - no previous "witness". And of course, it's the BOE who would determine the veracity of the "first" witness/ie. victim. So - there are still huge, huge, huge loopholes.

  If someone wants to look it up - this "new" protocol would be in a QFR in a WT.

  AGAIN. I AM NOT DEFENDING THEM.
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  Big Tex

  However, protocol HAS changed since I (and many others on this board) was molested. Two eyewitnesses to DIFFERENT events can indeed testify and those two events can be taken to DF a child molester. I am making NO comment or judgement about why or as to the rightness of it, I am merely verifying the procedure.

  I am very sorry for what happened to you. That's an awful, awful thing to have to live with. I am glad you made it out in one piece, and I truly hope you are recovering. I hope you are finding peace.

  I regret I have allowed some whose sole aim appears to be little more than get a big reaction from me or others. I regret I allowed some to trigger some emotions that have long since been dealt with. I say that because I didn't used to be quite so strident, and because I do not want you to be afraid to speak up about this topic. I feel as though I have contributed to that and for that I apologize to you.

  I hope you are right. As I said several times earlier in this thread, I do not presume to know all things about that sect now. If so, it's a baby step, not nearly enough but it is at least something.

  Having said that, I would still like to know from anyone who might know, what procedures Jehovah's Witnesses have put in place to address elders who do not follow this new procedure. I would also like to know what procedures Jehovah's Witnesses have put in place to ensure this new procedure is followed. Finally I would like to know if the elders still have the ability to ignore testimony from minors or from worldly eyewitnesses. In other words, do the elders still have the option to ignore a second witness who might be able to prove the victim is not a liar?
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  Pistoff

  Georgiegirl:

  YOU say it is true; you produce the proof QFR.

  P
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  crazyblondeb

  I didn't read the whole thread. But I do agree with Mary and Big Tex.

  I went thru finally getting my step dad in a jc, 25 plus years after he molested me. It's under

  my topic history. Many elders knew about it for years. It took me raising hell for a long

  time to get anything done. They are still too worried about appearances.
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  Georgiegirl

  Big Tex - Thank you. You have my sincere admiration and respect. I do not know what you do for a living, but I can imagine that if you chose to be, you would be an enormously effective advocate for those in need. In the posts that I have read, you consistently come across as measured and thoughtful. When you get angry, it is generally justified.

  As far as procedures in place, I seriously doubt there are any. In my opinion, it was a smokescreen put in place so it could be pointed to as "proof" they are handling the issue correctly.

  Pistoff - read my post. If I still had my "theocratic library", I would. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest.
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  AndersonsInfo

  For those who do not have access to the following information:

  1991: Found in the elder’s book, Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock” are the answers to some questions about WT’s “two-witness" policy that have been raised on this thread:

  The section the following is taken from is Unit 5 (b) p. 107, Sharing on a Judicial Committee

  P. 108-09 heading under discussion – The Judicial Committee. Required to be formed in cases of serious wrongdoing, including adultery, fornication, apostasy, and drunkenness. Points to Unit 5, pages 92-6 where a list of wrongdoing offenses are outlined, but sexual child abuse is not in the list.

  On page 110, heading under discussion - Handling Judicial Cases (Nothing is said about child sexual abuse in this topic.)

  Sub-heading, p. 111, “What kind of evidence is acceptable?”; we read in par. 1: “There must be two or three eyewitnesses, not just persons repeating what they have heard; no action can be taken if there is only one witness. (Deut. 19:15; John 8:17) [Jesus said the words in John 8:17 pointing to the maxim under Jewish law - Deut. 19:15 - the witness, or testimony, of two men is true. Hence the use of these two scriptures.]

  The topic then continues saying,

  1. “Confession” “may be accepted as conclusive proof…”

  2. Strong circumstantial evidence testified to by at least two witnesses that the accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of the opposite sex or a known homosexual…

  3. The testimony of youths may be considered…

  4. “The testimony of unbelievers may also be considered, but it must be carefully weighed.”

  5. “If there are two or three witnesses to the same kind of wrongdoing but each one is witness to a separate incident, their testimony can be considered. Such evidence may be used to establish guilt, but it is preferable to have two witnesses to the same occurrence of wrongdoing.

  On page 93 of the “Flock” book is a discussion of “Porneia.” After describing what it is, the list includes incest, this is what we read: “Also included are sexual abuse of children, including practices involving a catamite (a boy kept for purposes of sexual perversion). (Deut. 23:17, 18, Ref. Bi., ftns.) The Awake! January 22, 1985, p. 8 is suggested reading to follow the Society’s directives as to how victims of sexual abuse should be treated and protected.

  1995: Now here’s where the confusion enters into the picture about whether two or three witnesses to a separate incident can be considered: Watchtower, November 1, 1995, p. 28-29. This information is addressing “Repressed Memories.”

  “The Bible says that there must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken. (2 Corinthians 13:1; 1 Timothy 5:19) Even if more than one person ‘remembers’ abuse by the same individual, the nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without other supporting evidence. This does not mean that such ‘memories’ are viewed as false (or that they are viewed as true). But Bible principles must be followed in establishing a matter judicially.”

  2002: Found in the May 24, 2002 letter to all congregations in the US, which was read to JWs a few days before the May 28, 2002 Dateline program was broadcast revealing the problems of JWs and child sexual abuse, the last sentence in the fourth paragraph states, “However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony can be deemed sufficient to take action. 1 Timothy 2:19, 24, 25.”
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  AndersonsInfo

  Whether the requirement of immediate removal of JWs in positions of authority who are accused of molestation is found in the latest confidential letters to branches and to the elders from their “ecclesiastical government of Jehovah's Witnesses” has not been determined by me. Nevertheless, I have heard through my personal grapevine that an accusation of molestation leveled against anybody in an appointed position in the congregation means immediate suspension of “privileges.” Unlike before the pedophilia problem within the JW organization was publicized, now removal of a man from his position does not hinge on a finding of guilt or innocence. Clarification is needed, however, whether immediate removal of an accused elder or ministerial servant is based on an accusation made to the elders, or to the authorities, or when an arrest is made by the authorities.

  When Elder, Gary Block, 59, of Monticello, Minnesota, was arrested in November of 2008, along with his son Jacob, 22, I was told he was immediately removed from his position as elder. I understand that five young persons, not JWs, filed complaints of child molestation. The Block family operated a day-care center for 30 years where literally thousands of children came in and out of the doors of the business every day. (It was said Mrs. Block was blind.) At the time of the arrest, Jacob Block confessed, but his father did not, he stayed silent.

  The charges filed against Gary Block were Criminal Sexual Conduct-1 st and 2 nd Degree. Son, Jacob, was charged with Criminal Sexual Conduct, 2 nd Degree. Gary Block was sentenced in December 2008 to seven months and his son sentenced to three months. Both have served their time. They are now registered as sex offenders. For the next 27 months, Gary Block has to report to his probation office once a month, and after that, for the next 25 years he will have to stay in contact with authorities. He can’t be alone in church with a child or be in the rest room with a child. I have no further info. About his son.

  If you want more information on this case, write to the County Prosecutor, 10 2 nd St. N.W., Room 400, Buffalo, Minnesota 55313. You won’t receive documents unless you state why you want the court sentencing information. You will receive a bill for 25 cents a page and there could be as many as 5 pages.
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  AllTimeJeff

  Hello my friends. Trolls are out to upset. We've been through this recently. We don't need to let them tear our mending hearts.

  Barbara, nice to see you! Thanks for the info.... :-)
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  AndersonsInfo

  I would like to address another issue brought up on this thread. Sola Scriptura stated:

  george11 touched on this earlier when he posted this:
  
  "A 2002 letter to the elders made it quite clear:
  
  "Child abuse is a crime. Never suggest to anyone that they should not report an allegation of child abuse to the police or other authorities. If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal decision for each individual to make and that there are no congregation sanctions for either decision. That is, no elder will criticize anyone who reports such an allegation to the authorities.""

  The above information was found in a Bodies of Elders letter dated, February 15, 2002. It was a review of the Kingdom Ministry School held in the US during November and December of 2001 which my husband, Joe, attended in December. The school was held in Franklin, Tennessee, a town outside of Nashville. Charles (Chuck) Woody from the Service Department (he serves on the elite Service Committee) conducted the class. Joe knew Chuck since the mid-1950s when both Chuck and Joe came to Bethel as young men.

  Chuck greeted Joe as soon as he saw him come into the meeting room. Speaking privately with Joe, Chuck said how sorry he was that I had left the organization and soon was going to speak out publicly about child abuse within the organization. This was almost five months before Dateline aired. Interestingly, J. R. Brown, the WT spokesman, told the press he didn’t know who was going to appear onthe program shortly before it was broadcast. Yet, Chuck knew all about it in December 2001 due to the fact that the Dateline producer had been in touch with Watchtower since August 2001.

  When Chuck inquired of Joe as to what happened to make me leave the organization, Joe explained how I felt about elders handling child abuse allegations. Joe specifically said to Chuck, “Child abuse is a crime, not just a sin and it should always be reported to the authorities. Elders shouldn’t be involved in making a determination of guilt or innocence.” They talked for 15 minutes and Chuck got an earful from Joe about the Society sanctioning elders and others when they went to the authorities without permission. Can you imagine Joe’s surprise when during Chuck’s closing remarks at the end of the school, Chuck said, “Child abuse is a crime, brothers, not only a sin, etc.”

  A month later, on page 3 of the Feb. 15, 2002 Bodies of Elders letter it was stated what “george11” and Sola quoted above. When I review WT Bodies of Elders letters before February 15, 2002, I can not find where the WT Society, claiming to be God’s “spirit-directed organization,” advised the elders like they did in the Feb. 15, 2002 letter. That information became new policy and it was implemented because of the then-coming Dateline program and the circumstances as discussed above.

  Joe immediately resigned as an elder on May 24, 2002, just days before the Dateline program was viewed (May 28 th ), because he was so repelled by the statements made in the pre-damage control letter dated May 24 th , sent by the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, to be read to all congregations in the US. When he handed in his keys to the KH, the presiding elder asked Joe to write a resignation letter and for those who have never read it, here’s the link:

  http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/downloads/2002_Joe_%20Andersons_Elder_Resignation_Letter.pdf