Who is the ruler of this world? (page 2)

Narkissos

PSacramento,

I linked to that other thread because my comment there was precisely on your question (if maybe a little off-topic there): I think we should not be hasty to identify any "negative spiritual character" to "Satan" if the texts don't. This may be the natural thing to do from a later "orthodox" perspective, but there is probably more diversity in early Christian beliefs. The aeon(s) who keep this "world" in darkness in a proto-Gnostic context are not necessarily as "bad" or as antagonistic to the Father as Satan.

PSacramento

AK,

I don't recall Jesus mentioning Satan as the ruler of anything AFTER his resurrection, did he?

DD,

Yes, I believe that all are God's children.

Narkissos,

I agree, unless Satan or the devil ( which ever term is used) is applied, one must not jump the gun to assume that what/who is being spoken about is Satan, simply because IF the writer wanted to say Satan, he would have.

Farkel

Death is the unquestionable ruler of this world. Everyone and everything is subject to its laws and all the votes in the world don't count.

Farkel

AK - Jeff

AK,

I don't recall Jesus mentioning Satan as the ruler of anything AFTER his resurrection, did he?

Don't recall that. Doesn't what he said before he died count too?

Jeff

PSacramento

Farkel,

Quite correct, death is indeed the "ruler" and is amde clear a few times in scripture.

AK,

Yes, what Jesus said before his ressurection counts, of course, but we need to remember that all power and quthority was given AFTER his ressurection so that, what ever ruler there was before is now subject to Jesus.

PSacramento

In Luke 10:18, Jesus states how he saw Satan fall from Heaven, in 10:19 Jesus Tells his disciples how he has given them authority over all th epower of the enemy, in 10:21, Jesus says how his Father is Lord of Heaven AND Earth.

Seems to be saying that, not only did he witness Satan's fall from grace, he gave his disciples authority over "all the power of the enemy", the enemy being the aforementiond satan by his choice of words ( the singular and having just prior mentioning Satan).

Deputy Dog

PS

DD,

Yes, I believe that all are God's children.

What do you do with passages like John 8:44-47?

PSacramento

DD,

We are all God's children, even if some of us have fallen and become children of evil.

According to John, Jesus denounced those that did not love him as having the devil as their father, though he doesn't say they were his children from the beginning. He mentions how satan was a murderer and liar from the very beginning, but doesn't go as far as to say THEY were hsi children from the very beginning of their lives. He further goes on to say that who is of God hears God and who is NOT of God, doesn't hear him.

John 8: 44-47 is Jesus's rebuking those that doubt him and do not love him, by Him, it is clear from the verse before and after, that it is not only Jesus but God also, that they do not love or know.

I don't think he is implying they were never God's children, just fallen under the power/manipulation of Satan.

Deputy Dog

PS

I don't think he is implying they were never God's children, just fallen under the power/manipulation of Satan.

So in Romans 9:8 where it says: "That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants." You think the children of the flesh are "just fallen under the power/manipulation of Satan"?

How do you explain Jacob and Esau?

PSacramento

DD,

Not sure what your point is...are you trying to get at that some people are BORN out of favour from God ??

Who is the ruler of this world?

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