by AK - Jeff 81 Replies latest watchtower bible
Ak Jeff,
Not sure what you mean when you say that Jesus's death doesn't mean anymore than any other death?
Are we discussing the death of John Thomas Smith that dies in 1876? or hwo about Julius Veriticus that dies the same year as Jesus?
Not sure how his death can be viewed like any other when so much history was effected and written because of it.
Sac, I of course mean in any 'supernatural' way. Eternal salvation, ect. His death had some impact of course on historical matters. So did the death of John Kennedy. But not in any way that effects the eternal hope of man.
Jeff
Ah, gottcha.
Well, if you don't view Jesus as our saviour then No, his death didn't mean anything more than tghe death of someone that made his mark in History.
It seems that at least his disciples thought he was more than just man, and it seems that many, many millions over the course of almost 2000 years agreed with them.
Good thread!
if you ask and first don't receive, then keep asking until you do receive.
I agree with Sylvia :)
9 "So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
11 "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
You need to keep an open mind how God will respond. You will feel the pull of the Spirit. ATJ is describing this spiritual restlessness in his thread. That is the Holy Spirit. Sometimes it will go away, other times it will be strong. I remember telling the Holy Spirit to leave me alone in my bathroom one day! This was a prophecy that was for me from 20 years ago and describes what I am talking about
I will pursue you no matter what you do and I will plague you with My Spirit, not in order to discomfort but to bring you back to myself.
For I have a heart for you, says God, an immense heart of love beyond your understanding, but it is not without the bounds of appreciation and understanding on your part that I will work out a work in your life that will amaze you.God will talk to you in all kinds of ways and all kinds of situations. Look out for the "coincidences" too, they usually aren't :)
All the best,
Stephen
Yup! Under the guise that "their memories were directed by holy spirit." Which of course, doesn't account for the contradictions found in the gospels...
Which contradictions do you find? There are multiple ways of viewing the same event. Different accounts might appear contradictory but see if there are alternative explanations for these differing accounts.
Inherency of the bible is important. If you believe there are errors then everything biblical is open to error. Was Jesus really born? Was He really resurrected? Did Jesus really claim to be the Messiah?
All the best,
Stephen
Answers to those three questions from my perspective:
Yep. Nope. Depends on definition probably.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
If the answer to question two is no then Jesus cannot be the Messiah.
Also, all of us believers are wasting our time. Paul agrees. I think you will like some of the point he makes ;)
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
All the best,
Stephen
Yep - very familiar with that passage, Stephen. Used to be one of my favorites. I loved Paul's words there. They ring hollow for me now.
Jeff
Since all the good passages seem to have been used, I'll leave you with another little bit of information - even Muslims believe that Jesus was the Messiah - however, only to the Jews, not the whole world.
I guess this goes along the line of questioning; define 'Messiah'
Was it to be someone with a special message from God - either for a specific group or the whole of humanity? A God appointed king? Priest and sacrifice?
Or any combination of the above?
Maybe, Jesus' claims about himself to be the Messiah were true - but even he may have misunderstood his own mission.
Perhaps how we see Jesus' (or anyone elses?) Messiahship depends on how we receive him in faith (or lack thereof!) - just like when Jesus asked his disciples "Who do YOU say I am?" we are called to make an individual, personal response to who we see before us.
Do you really think people would have been favorable to him if their child had been killed because of him? People are used to thinking of "christ died for others." In this scenerio, thousands of innocent babies died for him. A bit of a role reversal, don't you think?
cameo, I never thought about that before. Thanks for posting this.
