just for reference the correct link for the original article is:
http://freeminds.org/blogs/musings-of-a-watchtower-insider/opening-pandora-s-box.html
Opening Pandora's Box - By Barbara Anderson
by flipper 86 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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JWoods
+++ and that is exactly my feeling too, AllTimeJeff. We just don't know how many -
"tens of thousands over the decades?" again - we just don't know. It sounds way to heavy to me. But, as you say - even ONE is way the hell too many.
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quietlyleaving
JWoods
as far as I'm concerned, there was a time when it would have been unbelievable that there were thousands of JW pedophile suspects within the org and then we got the news that the WTS had a secret list of 23,000 names.
It could well be that the wts is keeping very quiet about the numbers who have died because of refusing blood. Hypothetically this may be the case where elderly JWs are concerned. The WTS we know for sure does manipulate the flow of info when it suits them. And they may be very willing to share info that puts them in heroic martyr mode but if there are cases of JWs dying because of lack of blood in high risk groups (the elderly for instance) then I don't think they would be willing to share such info and would be more interested in keeping such quiet. The medical profession isn't going to share private medical info either.
As for simple logical truth, well that belongs in the class room or in a court room imo not in protest activities (thousand dying each year can mean lots die each year, it can mean too many die each year - do you get my drift). And re your accusation of sensationalism - Jehovahs witness beliefs are sensational all by themselves - lol - so exposing their harm can't help but be sensational
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JWoods
Do you suppose that there is some kind of list of those who die because they refuse to take blood?
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PSacramento
I am so opposed to the blood ban, I can't even put it into words, nevertheless, making one statement liek that and not being able to back it reeks of being sensationalist and throws the whole article into question.
Sorry.
Best to say that 1000's are put at risk and many die every year, when you don't have the info to bakc it up.
If the info is there it MUST be mentioned.
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JWoods
There are probably many categories: for example -
a) - obvious cases of severe injury and loss of so much blood that it causes cardiac arrest. Pretty easy to say that if the patient refuses blood in this situation, he has pretty much committed suicide for "religious" reasons.
b) - chronic illness which is likely to be fatal. Not taking blood might cause the person to die a little quicker, but they were going to die from the disease anyway.
c) - sometimes (ugly to say) blood transfusion is given during ordinary surgery in conditions where it could have been avoided. If a person refuses this, and for some reason complications set in, and they die - it would be difficult to say no blood caused it. Might well have happened anyway.
Anyway, like PSacremento says - we would look more reasonable (on a topic in which the JWs are vastly short of reason) if we just avoid making statements that cannot be reasonably proven.
That was my point.
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flipper
JWWOODS- The opening of Pandora's box in which the WT society has cost hundreds if not thousands of lives is well known. Not only in the issue of people refusing blood transfusions, but it covers a much bigger aspect. If you read Raymond Franz's book " Crisis of Consciense " you'll see that the HYPOCRISY of the WT society cost the lives of many Jehovah's Witnesses in Malawi where they were not allowed to purchase a political party card and paid for it with their lives, many people died. Yet in Mexico - the WT society allowed male members there to join the military to avoid prosecution to promote the interests of the WT society. So the WT society is bloodguilty for just hypocritically putting JW members needlessly at risk in their lives, whether it's blood transfusions, neutrality issues, or child molestation- the point is that the WT society ONLY is interested in keeping the organization afloat- not the personal safety of it's members. And that's a fact
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Marvin Shilmer
If JWoods or anyone else reacts suspiciously to assertions made then I say, “More power to em!”
In her discourse Barbara interjected:
“Literally, thousands of Witnesses die each year when there is need for whole blood or some blood components that JWs don’t approve of.”
Assuming Barbara is speaking of Watchtower’s blood doctrine, it is not unrealistic to say thousands of Witnesses die each year as a result of it. This is what Barbara’s statement is to me: a statement of her personal belief that thousands of people among the Witnesses die each year because of Watchtower’s blood doctrine.
Based on an average mortality rate of 1 percent, around 100,000 individuals in the Witness population die each year. Because this population is at a higher risk because of refusing various blood products that would prevent premature death in certain instances then it is realistic to think that at least 2,000 or more deaths annually among this patient population is a result of refusing these products. The mortality rate would only have to increase 2/100th's to 1.02 percent to achieve the statistical number of 2,000 deaths.
The United States has approximately 1,500,000 individuals in the Witness community. Annually it would take only 6 Witness deaths in each state of the USA due to refusing blood to achieve an increase of 2/100th's of 1 percent mortality. (6!) It is not unrealistic to think this occurs assuming Witnesses are just as likely as everyone else to face need of transfusion that Watchtower forbids. Just like everyone else, Witnesses have babies, automobile accidents, accidents on the job, other blunt force traumas, cancers of all sorts, blood disorders, and the list goes on. And, guess what? Just like everyone else, Witnesses bleed. Lose enough blood and Witnesses will die just like anyone else. There is a point at which only a transfusion of some Watchtower forbidden blood product will prevent such a death. If refused, these patients die. End of story. They check out.
That Witnesses face extraordinary mortality as a result of Watchtower’s blood doctrine is established in vetted literature. Here is a link where this was presented a few years ago on this forum (hope it works): http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/135674/1/Deaths-Due-to-Watchtower-Blood-Doctrine-Statistic-on-one-patient-populat
This year another study from the Netherlands demonstrated that Witnesses presenting with maternity have a mortality rate 6 times higher than the national average purely because of refusing blood forbidden by Watchtower. (Ref. Van Wolfswinkel et al, Maternal mortality and serious maternal morbidity in Jehovah’s witnesses in the Netherlands, BJOG An International Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, 2009 p. 1103)
Though I understand, embrace and endorse suspicion, in this case I am not the least suspicious of Barbara’s believe on this point. It is likely that thousands die among those in the worldwide community of Witnesses because of Watchtower’s blood doctrine.
Marvin Shilmer
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flipper
MARVIN SHILMER- THanks for the good points. Appreciate the insight
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etna
Thanks flipper for this thread. I wanted to ask you or barbara or anyone what they think the right thing is or the truth. I'm just at a crossroad or rather I even feel brokenhearted about everything I've been taught for so many years only to see alot of deciet amongst the good things ( U N, blood issue, malawi, shunning, so many flip flops, etc,etc). If anyone has answers or theories please put them in.
Thanks etna